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Environmentalists cost US jobs for no reason...
Posted on 10/8/14 at 11:26 am
Posted on 10/8/14 at 11:26 am
No Keystone? Canada says "OK" and finds another option:
LINK
The entire enviro mantra was that stopping keystone was a key to stopping GW....they ignored the fact that it was then shipped by rail and that a commodity so valuable would find a way out.
quote:
So you’re the Canadian oil industry and you do what you think is a great thing by developing a mother lode of heavy crude beneath the forests and muskeg of northern Alberta. The plan is to send it clear to refineries on the U.S. Gulf Coast via a pipeline called Keystone XL. Just a few years back, America desperately wanted that oil.
Then one day the politics get sticky. In Nebraska, farmers don’t want the pipeline running through their fields or over their water source. U.S. environmentalists invoke global warming in protesting the project. President Barack Obama keeps siding with them, delaying and delaying approval. From the Canadian perspective, Keystone has become a tractor mired in an interminably muddy field.
In this period of national gloom comes an idea -- a crazy-sounding notion, or maybe, actually, an epiphany. How about an all-Canadian route to liberate that oil sands crude from Alberta’s isolation and America’s fickleness? Canada’s own environmental and aboriginal politics are holding up a shorter and cheaper pipeline to the Pacific that would supply a shipping portal to oil-thirsty Asia.
Instead, go east, all the way to the Atlantic.
Thus was born Energy East, an improbable pipeline that its backers say has a high probability of being built. It will cost C$12 billion ($10.7 billion) and could be up and running by 2018. Its 4,600-kilometer (2,858-mile) path, taking advantage of a vast length of existing and underused natural gas pipeline, would wend through six provinces and four time zones. It would be Keystone on steroids, more than twice as long and carrying a third more crude.
LINK
The entire enviro mantra was that stopping keystone was a key to stopping GW....they ignored the fact that it was then shipped by rail and that a commodity so valuable would find a way out.
Posted on 10/8/14 at 11:32 am to cwill
Who on earth is surprised by this?
Posted on 10/8/14 at 11:44 am to Vols&Shaft83
Basically just increased the price we'll pay at the pump by having to compete with refineries in Europe now. Dumbasses.
This post was edited on 10/8/14 at 11:51 am
Posted on 10/8/14 at 11:46 am to Vols&Shaft83
quote:
Who on earth is surprised by this?
not surprised at all, but what's stopping Canada from just refining the oil in their country?
this could still work out in our favor.
quote:
they ignored the fact that it was then shipped by rail and that a commodity so valuable would find a way out.
the GW angle was a ploy to gain political backing, it was always about crony capitalism and back room deal making.
This post was edited on 10/8/14 at 11:49 am
Posted on 10/8/14 at 12:04 pm to C
quote:
Basically just increased the price we'll pay at the pump by having to compete with refineries in Europe now. Dumbasses.
That's not accurate.
Posted on 10/8/14 at 12:10 pm to cwill
quote:
The entire enviro mantra was that stopping keystone was a key to stopping GW
Not really. It was basically so they could say that their hands were clean of more and cheaper fossil fuels coming into the country. They want $10/gal gas so alternative (and still very expensive and inefficient) seem like a reasonable alternative to fossil fuels.
Everyone knows that Canada is going to sell that product and they wanted to give us first dibs but they really couldn't care less who they sell it to.
Posted on 10/8/14 at 12:14 pm to cwill
Let's not pretend that environmentalists were the lone entity that blocked Keystone XL.
Fairly obvious that Warren Buffet made a brilliant investment by contributing to Obama's campaign.
Fairly obvious that Warren Buffet made a brilliant investment by contributing to Obama's campaign.
Posted on 10/8/14 at 12:15 pm to cwill
If liberals are going to kill jobs then can we at least stop promoting unskilled parents from having children and stop promoting unskilled workers from coming into this country?
Posted on 10/8/14 at 12:19 pm to Vols&Shaft83
quote:
Warren Buffet made a brilliant investment by contributing to Obama's campaign.
Absolutely.
Posted on 10/8/14 at 12:22 pm to upgrayedd
See this is where we go off track...stopping keystone won't affect our domestic prices at the pump.
Posted on 10/8/14 at 12:26 pm to cwill
quote:
That's not accurate.
Which part? Canada doesn't have the capacity to refine it themselves so it will likely need to be shipped overseas. You don't think Europe can handle these blends? You don't think Europe would make changes to handle these blends? You don't think we pay less by refining more locally?
Posted on 10/8/14 at 12:28 pm to cwill
How so?
Maybe not in the short term, but most likely in the long term.
Maybe not in the short term, but most likely in the long term.
Posted on 10/8/14 at 12:39 pm to C
quote:
Which part? Canada doesn't have the capacity to refine it themselves so it will likely need to be shipped overseas. You don't think Europe can handle these blends? You don't think Europe would make changes to handle these blends? You don't think we pay less by refining more locally?
How is that realistically going to affect US gas prices? Heavy oil on the international market.
Posted on 10/8/14 at 12:43 pm to upgrayedd
quote:
How so?
Maybe not in the short term, but most likely in the long term.
The cost of your gas is related to the price of oil not the source. Gas prices will be declining in the near future due to the export ban and decreasing demand, domestically and worldwide. Oil is down to $87.40 (WTI) and $90 (BRENT) last time I checked. And that Canadian heavy isn't subject to the export ban - it would be in many instance offloaded to other countries anyway with some portion being refined in TX. The TX refineries are nearly at capacity right now. Lots of oil citing in storage tanks down at the ship channel.
Posted on 10/8/14 at 12:51 pm to cwill
Interesting.
It still has to have a large strategic value though, right?
It still has to have a large strategic value though, right?
Posted on 10/8/14 at 1:01 pm to upgrayedd
quote:
It still has to have a large strategic value though, right?
If we entered a world war and international supplies were cut? If we all reverted to mercantilism? Oil & gasoline were at their cheapest when we produced the least of our consumed supply.
Posted on 10/8/14 at 1:04 pm to cwill
quote:
Oil & gasoline were at their cheapest when we produced the least of our consumed supply.
Would't that have more to do with foreign governments purchasing O&G as well as massive US govt purchasing and/or subsidies?
Posted on 10/8/14 at 1:08 pm to upgrayedd
quote:
Would't that have more to do with foreign governments purchasing O&G as well as massive US govt purchasing and/or subsidies?
No...just the oil flowing unimpeded out of the ME was sufficient enough to push prices down to $15-20 from about 1985 - 2001 (1998 @ $10/bbl was the lowest)...that all tightened up in the 2000s.
Posted on 10/8/14 at 1:42 pm to cwill
quote:
The entire enviro mantra was that stopping keystone was a key to stopping GW....they ignored the fact that it was then shipped by rail and that a commodity so valuable would find a way out.
I can almost promise that Buffett is the driving force behind the resistance to Keystone because of this.
This post was edited on 10/8/14 at 1:43 pm
Posted on 10/8/14 at 1:42 pm to cwill
There isn't any refining capacity available anyway.
Its really a non-issue for most liquid marketing operations. We have too much onshore domestic liquid production for our refining capacity and will for the next 5-10 years, unless price drops to ~$60.
Its really a non-issue for most liquid marketing operations. We have too much onshore domestic liquid production for our refining capacity and will for the next 5-10 years, unless price drops to ~$60.
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