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help me understand a baseball personnel decision
Posted on 10/7/14 at 7:28 pm
Posted on 10/7/14 at 7:28 pm
I am NOT a big baseball fan and I don't follow it.I am curious though about the differences in pitchers.
can someone explain why a closer is used and what qualities make for a good closer. also why if this person is a good pitcher are they not used typically earlier in the game
can someone explain why a closer is used and what qualities make for a good closer. also why if this person is a good pitcher are they not used typically earlier in the game
11
Posted on 10/7/14 at 7:29 pm to Bleeding purple
i still dont understand why when neshak was so lights out and then they put in rosenthal in the 9th because "he's the closer".
baseball managers are so fricking dumb.
also when you have a guy like mo rivera in his prime, why wouldn't you use him in the 8th inning instead of the 9th if that's when the heart of the other team's order is due up? WGIF about 8th v's 9th - all 27 outs are equal.
baseball supposedly embraces advanced statistics, but i dont buy it. i think it's still the most stodgy of sports in most respects.
baseball managers are so fricking dumb.
also when you have a guy like mo rivera in his prime, why wouldn't you use him in the 8th inning instead of the 9th if that's when the heart of the other team's order is due up? WGIF about 8th v's 9th - all 27 outs are equal.
baseball supposedly embraces advanced statistics, but i dont buy it. i think it's still the most stodgy of sports in most respects.
This post was edited on 10/7/14 at 7:31 pm
Posted on 10/7/14 at 7:30 pm to SirWinston
for the record this has nothing to do with any specific baseball game
Posted on 10/7/14 at 7:33 pm to Bleeding purple
There honestly isn't a good explanation. The "closer" is typically the best pitcher in your bullpen. In my mind it is ridiculous that the "closer" is defined as the ninth inning guy. If the middle of the order is up with 2 on and one out up one run in the 7th, to me your closer should be coming in then.
The role has been defined by the saves stat and I think conventional wisdom will eventually change on this
The role has been defined by the saves stat and I think conventional wisdom will eventually change on this
This post was edited on 10/7/14 at 7:34 pm
Posted on 10/7/14 at 7:36 pm to ShaneTheLegLechler
quote:
The role has been defined by the saves stat
This
Posted on 10/7/14 at 7:57 pm to Bleeding purple
quote:
also why if this person is a good pitcher are they not used typically earlier in the game
i love that
quote:
I am NOT a big baseball fan and I don't follow it
asked this
quote:
also why if this person is a good pitcher are they not used typically earlier in the game
it's a great question. And it's why football coaches continue to punt on 4th down and less than 4. Fear of having to answer tough questions for going against the status quo (which is stupid to begin with)
Posted on 10/7/14 at 8:20 pm to LfcSU3520
Well I would say punting is a bit more invloved than simply bending to peer pressure or media pressure.
Consider 4th and 4. The three previous downs resulted in an average of 2.7 yrds. Then consider the offense and defensive powers of each team are not equal and the relative field position giving probability of scoring.
Consider 4th and 4. The three previous downs resulted in an average of 2.7 yrds. Then consider the offense and defensive powers of each team are not equal and the relative field position giving probability of scoring.
Posted on 10/7/14 at 8:41 pm to Bleeding purple
Not always but typically your closer is s guy with really Electric stuff such as overpowering heat which is better suited for that one inning to secure victory. There's also a lot of mentality that goes into it
Posted on 10/7/14 at 8:43 pm to beauchristopher
Of course starters have Electric stuff and go innings, but it's really about establishing roles and like I said the mentality that comes with it. Sometimes a guy may make s bad starter but incredible closer and there's a lot of mental aspect to even such s talent driven game
Posted on 10/7/14 at 8:46 pm to beauchristopher
So what makes a good starter or closer mentally?
What characteristics, personality traits, differences in experience are you looking for?
What characteristics, personality traits, differences in experience are you looking for?
Posted on 10/7/14 at 8:48 pm to Bleeding purple
Im not going to say i totally agree with the role of the closer, but i think some of these may be part of the thought process.
it's kind of a role thing. Like a starter knows when he will pitch. having defined roles has always been a thing. My guess is it helps preparation
mentally tough, doesnt get rattled
generally has 2 plus pitches, but not much else.
because the last 3 outs are important. last line of defense.
Also a multiple inning outing may leave them unavailable the next night.
quote:
can someone explain why a closer is used
it's kind of a role thing. Like a starter knows when he will pitch. having defined roles has always been a thing. My guess is it helps preparation
quote:
what qualities make for a good closer
mentally tough, doesnt get rattled
generally has 2 plus pitches, but not much else.
quote:
also why if this person is a good pitcher are they not used typically earlier in the game
because the last 3 outs are important. last line of defense.
Also a multiple inning outing may leave them unavailable the next night.
Posted on 10/7/14 at 10:01 pm to Lester Earl
Sometimes it is as simple as being able to keep hitters off balance a second and third time through the lineup that makes a starter a starter and keeps a guy in the pen
You have a guy like aroldis chapman can come in and gas it up at 99 and blow guys away, but let that 99 come about 20-25 pitches later and guys are timing it much better. It gets even more hittable at 60 or 80 pitches
Mentality too. Closers often time have the mental makeup such that they thrive when everything rides on every pitch. It is a well used baseball quip that when the closer comes in to get work in a blowout he will pitch himself into a close game
You have a guy like aroldis chapman can come in and gas it up at 99 and blow guys away, but let that 99 come about 20-25 pitches later and guys are timing it much better. It gets even more hittable at 60 or 80 pitches
Mentality too. Closers often time have the mental makeup such that they thrive when everything rides on every pitch. It is a well used baseball quip that when the closer comes in to get work in a blowout he will pitch himself into a close game
Posted on 10/7/14 at 10:04 pm to KBeezy
Also, like mentioned above, he may not have the variety of the starters.
Might have a killer slider and fastball, but that's it. So the more the hitters see it, the more they zone in on it.
Might have a killer slider and fastball, but that's it. So the more the hitters see it, the more they zone in on it.
Posted on 10/7/14 at 10:09 pm to KBeezy
I would also like to state that I understand the and Agree with the closer role, but I do not agree with the way it is used in practice
If i am up 1 in the bottom 8th, and playing the Red Sox who have runners on the corners with two outs and David Ortiz at the plate, I'm bringing in my flame throwing lefty to get him and I'll worry about the bottom half of the lineup next inning
If i am up 1 in the bottom 8th, and playing the Red Sox who have runners on the corners with two outs and David Ortiz at the plate, I'm bringing in my flame throwing lefty to get him and I'll worry about the bottom half of the lineup next inning
Posted on 10/7/14 at 10:15 pm to Bleeding purple
good thread topic...will be watching the responses.
Posted on 10/7/14 at 10:23 pm to Bleeding purple
the closer usually doesn't have the number of effective pitches as a starter. he also usually has a hell of a fastball and one strike out pitch. his job is to get three outs.
he comes in in a pressure situation and has the cool to do it. pitching in that situation is different so it has become a specialty. some guys are good at it and some aren't
he comes in in a pressure situation and has the cool to do it. pitching in that situation is different so it has become a specialty. some guys are good at it and some aren't
Posted on 10/7/14 at 10:26 pm to LSU GrandDad
quote:
he comes in in a pressure situation and has the cool to do it. pitching in that situation is different so it has become a specialty. some guys are good at it and some aren't
Coming in to start the ninth up by three runs isn't nearly as much pressure as coming into a tie game with runners on in the seventh. This is one of the main flaws with the closer role
Posted on 10/7/14 at 10:26 pm to LSU GrandDad
quote:
the closer usually doesn't have the number of effective pitches as a starter. he also usually has a hell of a fastball and one strike out pitch. his job is to get three outs.
that's kind of how i know it...
my son is a starter on his team. he is a tough, strike throwing pitcher who can throw 4 pitches effectively while hitting spots and out-finessing the big hitters and blowing by the weaker hitters. starters usually are smart game-managers, who can also manage baserunners as well.
our closers are strong fastball throwers who can blow it by most batters.
This post was edited on 10/7/14 at 10:28 pm
Posted on 10/7/14 at 10:27 pm to ShaneTheLegLechler
quote:
If the middle of the order is up with 2 on and one out up one run in the 7th, to me your closer should be coming in then.
and sometimes does if it's the 8th inning. often you'll see a pitcher come in for one batter in the situation you describe, esp if you have a "ground ball" pitcher on staff. however, if the starter still has gas he usually stays in.
Posted on 10/7/14 at 10:36 pm to ShaneTheLegLechler
The thing is you don't know you'll be up 3 at that point. IF the game is tied in the 7th, you're likely trying to manufacture a run, which means the game is likely to be just as close in the 9th.
With the way bullpens are specialized now, the 7th inning guys are just as good as closers anyway. At least on most good teams.
With the way bullpens are specialized now, the 7th inning guys are just as good as closers anyway. At least on most good teams.
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