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FBI 9MM Justification, FBI Training Division

Posted on 9/22/14 at 12:01 pm
Posted by wickowick
Head of Island
Member since Dec 2006
45786 posts
Posted on 9/22/14 at 12:01 pm
LINK

quote:

If you have followed us here, you know I have been talking about numerous agencies switching back to 9mm over the last few years, as well as the FBI testing for their switch. Great strides in bullet technology have been made in the past decade and 9mm is on the top of its game. With a select few rounds in 9mm, that have been tested for duty carry, 9mm is fast becoming one of the best options for duty carry.






quote:

Executive Summary of Justification for Law Enforcement Partners



Caliber debates have existed in law enforcement for decades

Most of what is “common knowledge” with ammunition and its effects on the human target are rooted in myth and folklore

Projectiles are what ultimately wound our adversaries and the projectile needs to be the basis for the discussion on what “caliber” is best

In all the major law enforcement calibers there exist projectiles which have a high likelihood of failing LEO’s in a shooting incident and there are projectiles which have a high ting incident likelihood of succeeding for LEO’s in a shooting incident

Handgun stopping power is simply a myth

The single most important factor in effectively wounding a human target is to have penetration to a scientifically valid depth (FBI uses 12” – 18”)

LEO’s miss between 70 – 80 percent of the shots fired during a shooting incident

Contemporary projectiles (since 2007) have dramatically increased the terminal effectiveness of many premium line law enforcement projectiles (emphasis on the 9mm Luger offerings)

9mm Luger now offers select projectiles which are, under identical testing conditions, I outperforming most of the premium line .40 S&W and .45 Auto projectiles tested by the FBI

9mm Luger offers higher magazine capacities, less recoil, lower cost (both in ammunition and wear on the weapons) and higher functional reliability rates (in FBI weapons)

The majority of FBI shooters are both FASTER in shot strings fired and more ACCURATE with shooting a 9mm
Luger vs shooting a .40 S&W (similar sized weapons)

There is little to no noticeable difference in the wound tracks between premium line law Auto enforcement projectiles from 9mm Luger through the .45 Auto

Given contemporary bullet construction, LEO’s can field (with proper bullet selection) 9mm Lugers with all of the terminal performance potential of any other law enforcement pistol caliber with none of the disadvantages present with the “larger” calibers
Posted by Hu_Flung_Pu
Central, LA
Member since Jan 2013
22151 posts
Posted on 9/22/14 at 12:06 pm to
I agree. 9mm ftw!

Was that 124 a +p?
This post was edited on 9/22/14 at 12:08 pm
Posted by KingRanch
The Ranch
Member since Mar 2012
61590 posts
Posted on 9/22/14 at 12:06 pm to
Where's the 10mm on that chart?
Posted by SabiDojo
Open to any suggestions.
Member since Nov 2010
83922 posts
Posted on 9/22/14 at 12:08 pm to
quote:

Where's the 10mm on that chart?



Here it is.

Posted by Hu_Flung_Pu
Central, LA
Member since Jan 2013
22151 posts
Posted on 9/22/14 at 12:08 pm to
You know, I almost said KR would say where's the 10mm but I think everyone knew.
Posted by KingRanch
The Ranch
Member since Mar 2012
61590 posts
Posted on 9/22/14 at 12:10 pm to
Just saying. Sorry I'm not sorry.
Posted by Tigah in the ATL
Atlanta
Member since Feb 2005
27539 posts
Posted on 9/22/14 at 12:10 pm to
I thought everyone knew this already.
Posted by Interweb Cowboy
NW Bama
Member since Dec 2010
3137 posts
Posted on 9/22/14 at 12:13 pm to
I vote for the 9mm also.
Posted by Shexter
Prairieville
Member since Feb 2014
13826 posts
Posted on 9/22/14 at 12:21 pm to
Big 9mm fan here too.
Always thought .40 was a possible overpenetrating round.

Wondering why the .40 velocity is so low? I always thought .40 blasted out close to 1300.
This post was edited on 9/22/14 at 12:24 pm
Posted by KingRanch
The Ranch
Member since Mar 2012
61590 posts
Posted on 9/22/14 at 12:24 pm to
quote:

1300


That's 10mm velocity
Posted by aVatiger
Water
Member since Jan 2006
27967 posts
Posted on 9/22/14 at 12:25 pm to
9mm4life
Posted by Galactic Inquisitor
An Incredibly Distant Star
Member since Dec 2013
15169 posts
Posted on 9/22/14 at 12:25 pm to
quote:

LEO’s miss between 70 – 80 percent of the shots fired during a shooting incident


I imagine I'd be even worse. This is why I love my 9mm double-stack. If it ever comes to it, 19>13.
Posted by aVatiger
Water
Member since Jan 2006
27967 posts
Posted on 9/22/14 at 12:26 pm to
btw, great thread wick
Posted by aVatiger
Water
Member since Jan 2006
27967 posts
Posted on 9/22/14 at 12:27 pm to
quote:

Always thought .40 was a trash round.


fify
Posted by JohnnyT
Central Texas
Member since Feb 2005
1806 posts
Posted on 9/22/14 at 12:28 pm to
I would like to see the 357 SIG data using 147 grain bullets.
Posted by Shexter
Prairieville
Member since Feb 2014
13826 posts
Posted on 9/22/14 at 12:32 pm to
quote:

LEO’s miss between 70 – 80 percent of the shots fired during a shooting incident


Hell, most of the BR City Police don't shoot that good at the range
Posted by LSUlefty
Youngsville, LA
Member since Dec 2007
26435 posts
Posted on 9/22/14 at 12:38 pm to
Those are disappointing numbers on the .357 Sig.
Posted by DownshiftAndFloorIt
Here
Member since Jan 2011
66763 posts
Posted on 9/22/14 at 12:47 pm to
Velocity should be up around 1425 for the sig iirc. Most loads are watered down.

What I don't like about these studies is that they don't factor in that improvement in technology doesn't apply only to the 9mm.
Posted by SabiDojo
Open to any suggestions.
Member since Nov 2010
83922 posts
Posted on 9/22/14 at 12:49 pm to
quote:

Hell, most of the BR City Police don't shoot that good at the range



Posted by bapple
Capital City
Member since Oct 2010
11872 posts
Posted on 9/22/14 at 12:57 pm to
quote:

There is little to no noticeable difference in the wound tracks between premium line law Auto enforcement projectiles from 9mm Luger through the .45 Auto



I have always said this and will continue to say it. It really comes down to personal preference because they all pretty much do the same thing.

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