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OL/DL is fine, plan needs a tweak: ." State spread our D more than we wanted":
Posted on 9/22/14 at 2:12 am
Posted on 9/22/14 at 2:12 am
If you saw something different, what was it?
IMHO There is nothing wrong with our OL/DL. Miles game plan needs tweaking and he is smart and he will get it done 100%. Chavis is definitely not to blame for the D. Unless it is something along the lines of he and Cam should speak truth to power. Chavis' Mustang D is designed to blitz teams on passing downs that do not have 5 WR spread sideline to sideline, and a spread option 230 lb 4.5 QB free to run against 3 Down Linemen out of an empty backfield. Dak has rushed for over 200 yds in a game and has 3 100+/yd games this year. His 105 yds in this game is more rushing than our entire team.
Dan Mullen runs the most spread offense in the SEC, neutralizing Chavis' spread Mustang D blitz. When AJ/BH throw from the shotgun with 4 and 5 WR we opened the whole field to runs, passes, and QB runs against State and Wisky, late in both games: both decided by 4-5 pts. Without their goal line stand we win.
Mullen has also built a D to stop old school LSU/ALA between the tackles Power running with a 255 LB that earned his keep. Like Wisky, Mullen knows both sides of the ball and has size to negate speed and speed to negate size. Miles, Chavis and Cam have the same player resources but Miles is obviously overruling Cam in the ratio of runs to passes and the "Game Manager" style of offense vs the spread. And without our O sustaining drives and scoring, their O wore down our D. The game announcers talked about how the D was tired. Both units perked up, after 2 TD's in 28 secs. Until the last 3 min of the game State had twice as many yds.
Miles went into the game believing our #2 ranked D with 2.5 games and 33 scoreless series, was meaningful vs MSST's O. Miles looked quiet, no hand claps, no gestures, he was frustrated by State's goal line stand but says he would pound their line again. He said "State spread us wider on D than we wanted". Well, that's what they do. Their O routinely runs sideline to sideline 5 WR sets w/Dak in an empty backfield, forcing man-to-man and DB's backs to the ball. Dak took off for a 56 yd 3rd TD out of this set, and Miles looked stymied. He said without their big plays it's a "different ball game". Except for ARK, the SEC West is running spread up tempo offenses, including LSU and Kiffin's O at ALA, that's 12 of 14 SEC teams, so there is no "different ball game", just better teams running more of the same, so no 9-6 Defensive Games of the Century on the slate.
After watching the game 3x, Dak was never under center making him a constant and frequent Rushing option. Being under center takes a QB out of the run option play and most quick short pass plays. AJ ran more than Hilliard and Magee, 11 times for 6 yds/0.5 yd/rush. LF & BH accounted for 57 of our 89 yds rushing on 9 carries. The O was predictable, that is why LF is never breaking big runs like Robinson. He is pounding the rock against a wall.
Miles: State spread us wider on Defense than we wanted to be
IMHO There is nothing wrong with our OL/DL. Miles game plan needs tweaking and he is smart and he will get it done 100%. Chavis is definitely not to blame for the D. Unless it is something along the lines of he and Cam should speak truth to power. Chavis' Mustang D is designed to blitz teams on passing downs that do not have 5 WR spread sideline to sideline, and a spread option 230 lb 4.5 QB free to run against 3 Down Linemen out of an empty backfield. Dak has rushed for over 200 yds in a game and has 3 100+/yd games this year. His 105 yds in this game is more rushing than our entire team.
Dan Mullen runs the most spread offense in the SEC, neutralizing Chavis' spread Mustang D blitz. When AJ/BH throw from the shotgun with 4 and 5 WR we opened the whole field to runs, passes, and QB runs against State and Wisky, late in both games: both decided by 4-5 pts. Without their goal line stand we win.
Mullen has also built a D to stop old school LSU/ALA between the tackles Power running with a 255 LB that earned his keep. Like Wisky, Mullen knows both sides of the ball and has size to negate speed and speed to negate size. Miles, Chavis and Cam have the same player resources but Miles is obviously overruling Cam in the ratio of runs to passes and the "Game Manager" style of offense vs the spread. And without our O sustaining drives and scoring, their O wore down our D. The game announcers talked about how the D was tired. Both units perked up, after 2 TD's in 28 secs. Until the last 3 min of the game State had twice as many yds.
Miles went into the game believing our #2 ranked D with 2.5 games and 33 scoreless series, was meaningful vs MSST's O. Miles looked quiet, no hand claps, no gestures, he was frustrated by State's goal line stand but says he would pound their line again. He said "State spread us wider on D than we wanted". Well, that's what they do. Their O routinely runs sideline to sideline 5 WR sets w/Dak in an empty backfield, forcing man-to-man and DB's backs to the ball. Dak took off for a 56 yd 3rd TD out of this set, and Miles looked stymied. He said without their big plays it's a "different ball game". Except for ARK, the SEC West is running spread up tempo offenses, including LSU and Kiffin's O at ALA, that's 12 of 14 SEC teams, so there is no "different ball game", just better teams running more of the same, so no 9-6 Defensive Games of the Century on the slate.
After watching the game 3x, Dak was never under center making him a constant and frequent Rushing option. Being under center takes a QB out of the run option play and most quick short pass plays. AJ ran more than Hilliard and Magee, 11 times for 6 yds/0.5 yd/rush. LF & BH accounted for 57 of our 89 yds rushing on 9 carries. The O was predictable, that is why LF is never breaking big runs like Robinson. He is pounding the rock against a wall.
Miles: State spread us wider on Defense than we wanted to be
This post was edited on 9/22/14 at 6:48 am
9
Posted on 9/22/14 at 2:28 am to Quid Pro Quo
Miles' goal line offense broke his own team's will. We could have had 20 tries from the 3 and wouldn't have made it in. 1960's thinking. You may be able to push it in against Sam Houston and New Mexico State but that's not going to work against SEC defensive fronts. Miles' ego is a detriment to the team.
Posted on 9/22/14 at 5:57 am to kmh5star
What's funny is he is lamenting about what worked vs our "vaunted" D....spreading them out more than they wanted to be. Hey, I have an idea Miles, how about you try the same damn thing with our O? It obviously works if executed correctly, just hope he sees the writing on the wall soon enough.
Posted on 9/22/14 at 6:05 am to kmh5star
OL and DL are major problems. DL is more of a talent dropoff, and OL IMO is on Grimes. 4/5ths of a returning OL who ran on just about everybody the last year, doesn't just start to get little push against teams like ULM. We ran all over Iowa from drive one last year with shite for a passing game. When Wisconsin's entire new front 7 and ULM pose a threat, guys we outweigh by a shite ton, we are fricked. Auburn's "strength" is in its DL as well as TAMU and Bama. Ole miss' whole defense looks decent, but that front 7 is supposed to be a beast (at least the DL).
My guessing is that we are running a new blocking scheme. My guessing is also that our starters are not built for it. You don't take OL guys who have been doing one thing for 3-4 years, switch it up, and expect them to be good right off the bat.
Does anybody remember the spring game? We couldn't run for shite even against our terrible DL and LBs. This is the most worrisome problem of the offense.
What we might have to do to combat it, is go to a more spread type offense. Shotgun, 3-4 wide and let the RBs do their thing. Harris should thrive in this, and I think Fournette would dominate with more carries. He needs to be the lead back. He needs 18-20 carries a game.
For us to have any hope this year of finishing with 9-10 wins, we have to pull the head from the rectum, and play to our strengths. That means spreading the D out, running from that, and playing the more talented players. Sure Harris will make freshman mistakes, sure he will get hit hard a few times and might need to sit out a bit, but we need him starting, and he gives the team the best chance to win.
In today's game, the best defense, is a beast offense.
My guessing is that we are running a new blocking scheme. My guessing is also that our starters are not built for it. You don't take OL guys who have been doing one thing for 3-4 years, switch it up, and expect them to be good right off the bat.
Does anybody remember the spring game? We couldn't run for shite even against our terrible DL and LBs. This is the most worrisome problem of the offense.
What we might have to do to combat it, is go to a more spread type offense. Shotgun, 3-4 wide and let the RBs do their thing. Harris should thrive in this, and I think Fournette would dominate with more carries. He needs to be the lead back. He needs 18-20 carries a game.
For us to have any hope this year of finishing with 9-10 wins, we have to pull the head from the rectum, and play to our strengths. That means spreading the D out, running from that, and playing the more talented players. Sure Harris will make freshman mistakes, sure he will get hit hard a few times and might need to sit out a bit, but we need him starting, and he gives the team the best chance to win.
In today's game, the best defense, is a beast offense.
Posted on 9/22/14 at 6:13 am to Datbayoubengal
quote:Ultimately it all rests in coaching, and what the HC brings to the table. These are all SEC level athletes, as MSU clearly proved. So what was different for the favored home team? Who said "coaching?"
n today's game, the best defense, is a beast offense.
Posted on 9/22/14 at 6:23 am to JawjaTigah
Miles shite the bed. No other way around it. He needs to make wholesale changes or this season will be a total disaster. It can go to shite quick. Look at auburn 2011/2012 and Florida 2013.
Posted on 9/22/14 at 6:36 am to Quid Pro Quo
quote:
It is Miles game plan. Chavis and Cam are not to blame.
It's Chavis' defense. Miles leaves him alone. That part of your rant is complete BS.
You can definitely make the case that Miles is holding Cam back on offense. In fact, through multiple offensive coordinators we do almost the same thing, so this gets traction to me. But defense? No, it's Chavis.
In fact many coaches around the SEC talk about how basic Chavis' schemes are. His philosophy is to do a few things well and keep mixing them up. I like that philosophy in college ball, but he got outsmarted on Saturday.
I also agree with the poster above who makes the case that Grimes hosed up an offensive line that was productive last year and should have been better this year.
Posted on 9/22/14 at 6:54 am to Penrod
Grimes has tried to put his stamp on the O line an. It's backfired big time
Posted on 9/22/14 at 7:25 am to monsterballads
I don't buy that our problems are lack of talent at any position. Miss. St. beat us with three key playmakers from Louisiana, only one of whom was even recruited by LSU. We have more talent than Miss. St. They had better schemes.
We have four good RBs, an experienced O-line and speed to burn at WR. Instead of spreading things out and giving that talent space to work, we spent most of the day bunched up in two TE formations trying to pound the ball between the tackles.
If we sustain a few drives and put points on the board, the D will look much better. We have a great secondary. If teams have to pass to keep up with our offense, the D will look much better and might even get some turnovers.
We have four good RBs, an experienced O-line and speed to burn at WR. Instead of spreading things out and giving that talent space to work, we spent most of the day bunched up in two TE formations trying to pound the ball between the tackles.
If we sustain a few drives and put points on the board, the D will look much better. We have a great secondary. If teams have to pass to keep up with our offense, the D will look much better and might even get some turnovers.
Posted on 9/22/14 at 7:34 am to Fabius
quote:
We have more talent than Miss. St. They had better schemes.
spot on
Posted on 9/22/14 at 7:35 am to Datbayoubengal
quote:
OL and DL are major problems.
Posted on 9/22/14 at 7:36 am to Quid Pro Quo
quote:
IMHO There is nothing wrong with our OL/DL.
I'd like you to watch the last play of the game again.
Posted on 9/22/14 at 7:38 am to Quid Pro Quo
quote:It's like when someone is looking all over the room for their glasses, but they are right on their head.
OL/DL is fine, plan needs a tweak: ." State spread our D more than we wanted"
Posted on 9/22/14 at 7:50 am to Datbayoubengal
I amended the OP but the message is the same only hopefully a little clearer. You often say that LF is not being used effectively and I tried to make that point also. He never got any of the carries in the Wisky game in the fourth qtr when we spread the offense and Wisc only had 2 DL. Hilliard was running through 10 ft wide holes. Spreading the line and opening up the field is something we should do and Cam is loaded with talent to do. You want a beast offense don't pound the rock at a 255 lb linebacker with a predictable run formation. Put LF in some open space and watch him turn on the jets.
The best defense and offense complement each other. It is not either or. Prior to this game the D was credited with 60% of the scoring opportunities. That is old school. Cam dictated what D was on the field in the 4th qtr of the Wisc game by spreading the Offense. The same thing Miles is complaining about having to face. Chavis was able to do the same in 4th in Wisc game because their QB was throwing INTs and averaging 2 yds a completion. Chavis did not have that opportunity vs Dak. He could have if we had more success on offense and if Day was ejected.
Harris' passes look like laser guided cruise missiles. It took him 28 seconds to put up 14 pts, 2 TDs to Dupre. The receivers came alive when he stepped on the field. Les Miles lifted his hat and quit sulking because he realized you really do have to have offense to win games as well as defense. If anyone says he does not know the playbook they are parroting some crap they read in the media or David Ching. I'll take the playbook Harris works off of any day.
Valentine is the much needed big man on the DL. He likes being called “Filthy Animal”, and he explained why that is the case and displays confidence to go with his elite 11 size and skill.
“I’m nasty and I like to play dirty. D-Tackles, we play dirty and that’s the thing about it. We like to get under people’s skin and throw people on the ground. Offensive linemen think they’re dirtier, but we are way dirtier. Double teams, I love double teams. I'm in love with double teams. I like triple teams too. I like when three people on me. I smack 'em off me and I make tackles. It’s high intensity and I’m just getting everybody’s heads right, trying to piss them off a little bit, and toughen up my O-Line. I like to piss my teammates off because when my O-Line is pissed off, they’ll be ready for war”
"You heard it through the Grapevine"
The best defense and offense complement each other. It is not either or. Prior to this game the D was credited with 60% of the scoring opportunities. That is old school. Cam dictated what D was on the field in the 4th qtr of the Wisc game by spreading the Offense. The same thing Miles is complaining about having to face. Chavis was able to do the same in 4th in Wisc game because their QB was throwing INTs and averaging 2 yds a completion. Chavis did not have that opportunity vs Dak. He could have if we had more success on offense and if Day was ejected.
Harris' passes look like laser guided cruise missiles. It took him 28 seconds to put up 14 pts, 2 TDs to Dupre. The receivers came alive when he stepped on the field. Les Miles lifted his hat and quit sulking because he realized you really do have to have offense to win games as well as defense. If anyone says he does not know the playbook they are parroting some crap they read in the media or David Ching. I'll take the playbook Harris works off of any day.
quote:
In May, Dupre & Harris participated in QB guru George Whitfield’s camp, along with players like Baylor’s Bryce Petty, Notre Dame’s Everett Golson, & Michigan State’s Connor Cook–not exactly slouch competition. We knew then that they were more than holding their own:
quote:
As George Whitfield said, "There isn’t a quarterback in this class with his arm talent,”
(That class included all the top QBs in the country)
Whitfield said. "You can print that and write that. There isn’t one kid. He will develop and he will get bigger."
""He reminds me of (Heisman Trophy winner Jameis Winston). Jameis was only 6-foot-2 and 190-pounds when he was at Elite 11 at that same age. "
quote:
It doesn't matter one bit if Harris isn't ready. Jennings can't get the job done and he never will. There were WRs running wide open last night and he didn't see them or couldn't come close to completing a pass to them. It's no coincidence that Harris comes in and completes incredible passes that Jennings never could. It doesn't matter if it was State's backups either. The talent difference is evident. Not only that, the offensive players had much more spark when Harris came in.
Valentine is the much needed big man on the DL. He likes being called “Filthy Animal”, and he explained why that is the case and displays confidence to go with his elite 11 size and skill.
“I’m nasty and I like to play dirty. D-Tackles, we play dirty and that’s the thing about it. We like to get under people’s skin and throw people on the ground. Offensive linemen think they’re dirtier, but we are way dirtier. Double teams, I love double teams. I'm in love with double teams. I like triple teams too. I like when three people on me. I smack 'em off me and I make tackles. It’s high intensity and I’m just getting everybody’s heads right, trying to piss them off a little bit, and toughen up my O-Line. I like to piss my teammates off because when my O-Line is pissed off, they’ll be ready for war”
"You heard it through the Grapevine"
Posted on 9/22/14 at 8:00 am to Quid Pro Quo
Well, its a good thing we won't play teams that spread us out the rest of the way...oh wait.
If this is remotely true (and I don't believe it), then Les and Chief are morons for putting together a team that isn't capable of playing good defense against a team like State considering we'll see that same (or close offense) 3-4 times the rest of the way.
If this is remotely true (and I don't believe it), then Les and Chief are morons for putting together a team that isn't capable of playing good defense against a team like State considering we'll see that same (or close offense) 3-4 times the rest of the way.
Posted on 9/22/14 at 8:20 am to Quid Pro Quo
quote:
OL/DL is fine
No, they're not. My optimism for this season was based on the strength of the team being on both lines of scrimmage. After three games of "meh" performances, I knew the truth would be revealed against State...
After what I saw with my own two eyes Sat night, the O line, D line, and team in general is in trouble this season. The rest of this season will say a lot about the coaching staff as a whole.
Posted on 9/22/14 at 8:45 am to Quid Pro Quo
We have personnel issues in our front 7. It is blatantly obvious.
We will have to scheme differently to fit our personnel. Chavis' coaching prowess will be put to the ultimate test this year.
As far as offense, Miles will be Miles. We better get better at it because it's not changing.
We will have to scheme differently to fit our personnel. Chavis' coaching prowess will be put to the ultimate test this year.
As far as offense, Miles will be Miles. We better get better at it because it's not changing.
Posted on 9/22/14 at 8:46 am to Quid Pro Quo
quote:
OL/DL is fine
Stopped reading there
Posted on 9/22/14 at 8:57 am to Quid Pro Quo
quote:
If you saw something different, what was it? IMHO There is nothing wrong with our OL/DL. Miles game plan needs tweaking and he is smart and he will get it done 100%. Chavis is definitely not to blame for the D. Unless it is something along the lines of he and Cam should speak truth to power. Chavis' Mustang D is designed to blitz teams on passing downs that do not have 5 WR spread sideline to sideline, and a spread option 230 lb 4.5 QB free to run against 3 Down Linemen out of an empty backfield. Dak has rushed for over 200 yds in a game and has 3 100+/yd games this year. His 105 yds in this game is more rushing than our entire team. Dan Mullen runs the most spread offense in the SEC, neutralizing Chavis' spread Mustang D blitz. When AJ/BH throw from the shotgun with 4 and 5 WR we opened the whole field to runs, passes, and QB runs against State and Wisky, late in both games: both decided by 4-5 pts. Without their goal line stand we win. Mullen has also built a D to stop old school LSU/ALA between the tackles Power running with a 255 LB that earned his keep. Like Wisky, Mullen knows both sides of the ball and has size to negate speed and speed to negate size. Miles, Chavis and Cam have the same player resources but Miles is obviously overruling Cam in the ratio of runs to passes and the "Game Manager" style of offense vs the spread. And without our O sustaining drives and scoring, their O wore down our D. The game announcers talked about how the D was tired. Both units perked up, after 2 TD's in 28 secs. Until the last 3 min of the game State had twice as many yds. Miles went into the game believing our #2 ranked D with 2.5 games and 33 scoreless series, was meaningful vs MSST's O. Miles looked quiet, no hand claps, no gestures, he was frustrated by State's goal line stand but says he would pound their line again. He said "State spread us wider on D than we wanted". Well, that's what they do. Their O routinely runs sideline to sideline 5 WR sets w/Dak in an empty backfield, forcing man-to-man and DB's backs to the ball. Dak took off for a 56 yd 3rd TD out of this set, and Miles looked stymied. He said without their big plays it's a "different ball game". Except for ARK, the SEC West is running spread up tempo offenses, including LSU and Kiffin's O at ALA, that's 12 of 14 SEC teams, so there is no "different ball game", just better teams running more of the same, so no 9-6 Defensive Games of the Century on the slate. After watching the game 3x, Dak was never under center making him a constant and frequent Rushing option. Being under center takes a QB out of the run option play and most quick short pass plays. AJ ran more than Hilliard and Magee, 11 times for 6 yds/0.5 yd/rush. LF & BH accounted for 57 of our 89 yds rushing on 9 carries. The O was predictable, that is why LF is never breaking big runs like Robinson. He is pounding the rock against a wall.
Sorry but we have problems in both. Our d line was manhandled and could not beat their men or get off blocks, especially at the DT spot. Our o line was beaten and embarrassed, especially our Senior center, Porter. Our linebackers are small, weak , don't shed blocks, and tackle poorly. Our secondary is talented, but receiving no help from the line. Jennings throws a nice deep ball, but is a 45% passer, and inaccurate on WIDE OPEN short and intermediate throws. It's about far more than just tweaking a plan. With the talent recruited here, they should be confident that they can execute no matter how far the CBs and defense are spread out.
This post was edited on 9/22/14 at 9:00 am
Posted on 9/22/14 at 9:03 am to Fabius
quote:
Instead of spreading things out and giving that talent space to work, we spent most of the day bunched up in two TE formations trying to pound the ball between the tackles.
This is actually false and dont know why people keep saying this. The most used package was 1 TE and a FB with two wrs. The passing game was there, jennings was shite and Dural had a huge drop. Dickson got open on occasion and jennings just cant look him down and cant make the intermediate pass.
But the oline and dline isnt fine. I think we are fine at de, but not dtackle. Our o line has completely shat the bed this season and is extremely disappointing after bringing in Grimes.
This post was edited on 9/22/14 at 9:08 am
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