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Did Holder's "I'm a black man" comments arguably violate Ethics rules?

Posted on 8/24/14 at 9:05 am
Posted by Champagne
Already Conquered USA.
Member since Oct 2007
48225 posts
Posted on 8/24/14 at 9:05 am
Prosecutors have to follow rules of ethics and professional conduct.

Here's what Rule 3.8 says about what a prosecutor needs to do/not do:

" (f) except for statements that are necessary to inform the public of the nature and extent of the prosecutor's action and that serve a legitimate law enforcement purpose, refrain from making extrajudicial comments that have a substantial likelihood of heightening public condemnation of the accused . . . "

Holder's comments were definitely "extrajudicial" and definitely were not "necessary".

Did Holder violate the rules of ethics?

He said that his own experience of being victimized based on race impacted him. Did this create an inference that he believed that Officer Wilson's actions victimized Brown based upon race?

Arguably, yes, and creating that inference could create a substantial likelihood of heightening public condemnation of the accused.

Can Officer Wilson get a fair Civil Rights trial once the Attorney General infers that the accused's actions were motivated by racial bias or prejudice? Officer Wilson's defense attorney may have an issue here.
Posted by SlowFlowPro
Simple Solutions to Complex Probs
Member since Jan 2004
420871 posts
Posted on 8/24/14 at 9:13 am to
holder is a politician, not really a "prosecutor"
Posted by NC_Tigah
Carolinas
Member since Sep 2003
123745 posts
Posted on 8/24/14 at 9:28 am to
quote:

Arguably, yes, and creating that inference could create a substantial likelihood of heightening public condemnation of the accused.
I'd bet Holder would claim to be drawing on his inner RFK.
As RFK was addressing the MLK murder:
quote:

For those of you who are black and are tempted to be filled with hatred and mistrust of the injustice of such an act, against all white people, I would only say that I can also feel in my own heart the same kind of feeling. I had a member of my family killed, but he was killed by a white man.
Posted by Vegas Bengal
Member since Feb 2008
26344 posts
Posted on 8/24/14 at 9:29 am to
quote:

Did Holder's "I'm a black man" comments arguably violate Ethics rules?


Why do you arguably add an unnecessary word to your sentence?

The AG heads the DOJ which has it's own ethics department and code. I haven't read the code but if you're concerned with possible ethics violations, you should concentrate on those and not the rules which don't apply.
Posted by Vegas Bengal
Member since Feb 2008
26344 posts
Posted on 8/24/14 at 9:33 am to
Robert Kennedy was not the AG when MLK was killed and hadn't been AG for 4 years. He was a US Senator running for president.
Posted by davesdawgs
Georgia - Class of '75
Member since Oct 2008
20307 posts
Posted on 8/24/14 at 9:42 am to
quote:

holder is a politician, not really a "prosecutor"


Which means he is not fit to hold the Attorney General office. Thanks Obama....
Posted by FightinTigersDammit
Louisiana North
Member since Mar 2006
34542 posts
Posted on 8/24/14 at 9:50 am to
You think this administration gives one solitary frick about ethics rules?
Posted by Jim Ignatowski
Louisiana
Member since Jul 2013
1383 posts
Posted on 8/24/14 at 10:00 am to
quote:

You think this administration gives one solitary frick about ethics rules?


....NO...they never have....they don't now.....and they NEVER will. This is the most embarrassing administration that has ever been in office...like ameteur hour....and it gets worse daily.
Posted by Vegas Bengal
Member since Feb 2008
26344 posts
Posted on 8/24/14 at 10:07 am to
Yes
Posted by Champagne
Already Conquered USA.
Member since Oct 2007
48225 posts
Posted on 8/24/14 at 10:08 am to
quote:

holder is a politician, not really a "prosecutor"




Doesn't AG Holder supervise and manage those prosecutors that handle Civil Rights cases?

So, if the Boss infers that a particular case might involve a hate crime, or something like that, could this influence the prosecutorial discretion of the subordinate?
Posted by Champagne
Already Conquered USA.
Member since Oct 2007
48225 posts
Posted on 8/24/14 at 10:11 am to
quote:

You think this administration gives one solitary frick about ethics rules?


IMHO, AG Holder can indeed handle this matter fairly and impartially.

This administration, however, plays very fast and loose with all ethics rules, not to mention "the law" in general. This administration is not the most law-abiding that we've seen, IMHO.

But, Holder's comments were careless and could create problems for any of his subordinates that might later be assigned to prosecute any case against the police officer.
Posted by Holden Caulfield
Hanging with J.D.
Member since May 2008
8308 posts
Posted on 8/24/14 at 10:12 am to
The man provides weapons to drug cartels. He's not concerned about how his words are perceived
Posted by Champagne
Already Conquered USA.
Member since Oct 2007
48225 posts
Posted on 8/24/14 at 10:15 am to
quote:

you should concentrate on those and not the rules which don't apply.



Let's assume that there is no controlling legal authority that would prohibit AG Holder from making extrajudicial comments that arguably infer that Officer Wilson was motivated by racial prejudice when he shot Brown.

Has AG Holder in any way made it more difficult to prosecute Wilson, because his comments may have created some legal issues for Wilson's defense attorney to exploit?

Why would the AG make a public extrajudicial pronouncement that creates a legal issue for a future defense attorney to exploit?



Would a thoughtful, wise, competent AG who possesses good judgment make such extrajudicial comments?
This post was edited on 8/24/14 at 10:18 am
Posted by Champagne
Already Conquered USA.
Member since Oct 2007
48225 posts
Posted on 8/24/14 at 10:29 am to
LINK

From the article above --


Here's a rule that applies to AG Holder:

" The issue in Ferguson is possible police misconduct. Investigating such misconduct is the responsibility of the Criminal Section of the Justice Department’s Civil Rights Division. The primary mission of this Section is to prosecute individual police officers under 18 U.S.C. §§ 241 and 242. These criminal statutes prohibit officials who are acting under color of law from willfully depriving individuals “of any rights, privileges, or immunities secured or protected by the Constitution or laws of the United States.”

If the manager and supervisor of the prosecuting attorney in a Civil Rights case makes a public statement that creates in inference that the accused was motivated by racial bias and prejudice, does this create a reasonable likelihood that the accused's right to a fair trial is adversely affected?

If your Boss tells you that he thinks a case on your desk involves racial prejudice, are you more or less likely to prosecute the case?

Did Holder affect the independent judgment that a US Attorney must have when exercising prosecutorial discretion?

Is it even ARGUABLE that he did?

Why would any competent US Attorney General generate such grist for the legal mill of the defense attorney?
Posted by Champagne
Already Conquered USA.
Member since Oct 2007
48225 posts
Posted on 8/24/14 at 10:35 am to
quote:

The AG heads the DOJ which has it's own ethics department and code.


So, the American Bar Association's Rules of Professional Conduct don't apply to AG Holder?

Here's what Rule 3.6 says:

" A lawyer who is participating or has participated in the investigation or litigation of a matter shall not make an extrajudicial statement that the lawyer knows or reasonably should know will be disseminated by means of public communication and will have a substantial likelihood of materially prejudicing an adjudicative proceeding in the matter. "



Posted by Alahunter
Member since Jan 2008
90738 posts
Posted on 8/24/14 at 10:50 am to
quote:

A Milwaukee County sheriff took aim at Attorney General Eric H. Holder Jr. and Missouri Democrats on Friday, accusing them of demonizing law enforcement officers and fanning the racial flames in Ferguson.

Sheriff David Clarke, who gained national attention last year for encouraging gun ownership, accused Mr. Holder, Gov. Jay Nixon and Sen. Claire McCaskill of making “irresponsible” and “inflammatory” comments about Ferguson’s police force and its purported race issues


quote:

Mr. Clarke said the three insinuated that law enforcement officers “engage in some nefarious or systematic and cultural attempts to violate people’s civil rights.”

“I thought that was a slap in the face to every law-enforcement officer in America who puts on the badge and the uniform everyday to go out and risk their lives in service to their community,” the sheriff said.



Mr. Clarke specifically called on Mr. Holder apologize.

“I think the attorney general needs to further explain his anecdotal references to being racially profiled as if officers across America do this thing,” he said.





Read more: LINK



Posted by TT9
Global warming
Member since Sep 2008
82952 posts
Posted on 8/24/14 at 10:51 am to
Holder should resign, he's been an absolute disaster.
Posted by Reubaltaich
A nation under duress
Member since Jun 2006
4959 posts
Posted on 8/24/14 at 11:02 am to
I don't know much about judical matters but if I were Wilsons lawyers, I would LOUDLY demand that this holder immediately recuse himself from this investigation.
Posted by Navytiger74
Member since Oct 2009
50458 posts
Posted on 8/24/14 at 11:03 am to
No. The AG is not a prosecutor.
Posted by Diamondawg
Mississippi
Member since Oct 2006
32176 posts
Posted on 8/24/14 at 11:20 am to
Not the most egregious thing that he has done while serving as AG.
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