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Started By
Message
Deregulation and totally free markets
Posted on 8/11/14 at 7:57 am
Posted on 8/11/14 at 7:57 am
First, I'm not an expert on this topic.
I see a lot of people here advocating this without qualification.Sorta as a utopia, cure all, etc.
I don't get this. Is it just people here talking in a simple minded way? Sorta just an ignorant perspective without nuance?
Or do people really think government regulation is worthless and pure free markets (or almost completely free with practically no regulation) is desirable.
Edumacate me.
I see a lot of people here advocating this without qualification.Sorta as a utopia, cure all, etc.
I don't get this. Is it just people here talking in a simple minded way? Sorta just an ignorant perspective without nuance?
Or do people really think government regulation is worthless and pure free markets (or almost completely free with practically no regulation) is desirable.
Edumacate me.
Posted on 8/11/14 at 7:59 am to Tiger n Miami AU83
Government manipulation into free markets is the problem.
Posted on 8/11/14 at 8:08 am to Tiger n Miami AU83
quote:
I see a lot of people here advocating this without qualification.
I've only seen a handful of anarchists posting here. Most libertarians have some qualifications for state sponsored support/laws.
Posted on 8/11/14 at 8:10 am to Tiger n Miami AU83
quote:
Or do people really think government regulation is worthless
i wouldn't call it worthless, it's just suboptimal and will raise costs/prices
it also creates the monster of crony capitalism, where government can pick winners and losers. that's the REAL issue
Posted on 8/11/14 at 8:13 am to Tiger n Miami AU83
quote:
Or do people really think government regulation is worthless and pure free markets (or almost completely free with practically no regulation) is desirable.
<--
Posted on 8/11/14 at 8:16 am to HempHead
Individuals should be deciders in economy, with gov't taking a far backseat.
Progressives are always promising some utopia with all of their regulations. A "bubble wrap" society if you will.
Progressives are always promising some utopia with all of their regulations. A "bubble wrap" society if you will.
Posted on 8/11/14 at 8:22 am to Tiger n Miami AU83
The responses are mostly what I am talking about.
It seems many here just think gov regulation bad, free market good.
Maybe without knowing why or any real specifics or knowledge to back up that general belief.
It seems many here just think gov regulation bad, free market good.
Maybe without knowing why or any real specifics or knowledge to back up that general belief.
Posted on 8/11/14 at 8:27 am to Tiger n Miami AU83
quote:
Maybe without knowing why or any real specifics or knowledge to back up that general belief.
I just think it sounds cool!
Posted on 8/11/14 at 8:29 am to Tiger n Miami AU83
quote:
It seems many here just think gov regulation bad, free market good.
there has been a lot more detail than that
i'll give you a real world example, though. let's say you want to start your own financial company
do you think that as a sole guy you could wade through the mines of regulations, constant updates to regulations, and deal with bullshite regs like the "qualified investor"? or do you think that a larger operation is more capable of handling these regs?
then you have to ask: why does the government want to protect the big guys?
Posted on 8/11/14 at 8:35 am to Tiger n Miami AU83
Over regulation stifles small business growth and protects the very corporations that liberals hate from competition.
Some regulation is needed to at the federal level, mostly to combat corruption and unethical practices. Environmental standards should be handled by a local government because they will better understand the issues at hand
Some regulation is needed to at the federal level, mostly to combat corruption and unethical practices. Environmental standards should be handled by a local government because they will better understand the issues at hand
Posted on 8/11/14 at 8:43 am to deltaland
The problem with regulation is that it presents an artificial barrier for entry into markets. Some large companies are so old that they didn't face the same regulations when they started.
Posted on 8/11/14 at 8:46 am to deltaland
quote:
Environmental standards should be handled by a local government because they will better understand the issues at hand
What do you mean by "handled?" If you let each state make up their own environmental regulations, then one state might undo or make irrelevant any changes made by a neighboring state.
For example, if Wisconsin passes a law that says don't pollute the Mississippi, but Iowa has no such law, then what good does Wisconsin's law do?
Even state-level enforcement of federal regulation is problematic because each state might be selective in what they choose to enforce, and also state resources vary (some states may be more able to enforce laws than others).
Generally, I am in favor of localism. However, when it comes to an issue that is bigger than a state, you need a rule and enforcement from a bigger entity.
That is JHMO and it also does not speak to the small business arguments put forth above.
This post was edited on 8/11/14 at 8:47 am
Posted on 8/11/14 at 8:55 am to Tiger n Miami AU83
quote:
I see a lot of people here advocating this without qualification.Sorta as a utopia, cure all, etc.
I don't get this. Is it just people here talking in a simple minded way? Sorta just an ignorant perspective without nuance?
A very small cadre on here are in favor of NO regulation.
Lumping conservatives in with them is like lumping liberals in with socialists and communists; close cousins, but there are important differences.
The key point for me as a conservative is the recognition that regulation has unintended consequences. Most regulation comes about from the "there ought to be a law!" mentality. Not every problem needs to be solved by government.
Throw in that most unintended regulations harm the economy (most often through increased costs or increased barriers to entry). And I think helping the economy grow is often a lot better than whatever tax-payer funded program is being discussed.
So regulations are often necessary; but more often they are passed without much regard for the damage they will do usually in an effort for elected officials to claim they are "doing something."
Posted on 8/11/14 at 8:57 am to BigJim
quote:
So regulations are often necessary; but more often they are passed without much regard for the damage they will do usually in an effort for elected officials to claim they are "doing something."
Posted on 8/11/14 at 8:58 am to TxTiger82
I was talking more on deforestation or polluting of local lakes by a factory.
Multi state issues like the MS river can be controlled by Feds. But the EPA shouldn't be able to show up on your property and fine you for letting water from your private pond drain into a ditch that runs into the local reservoir
Multi state issues like the MS river can be controlled by Feds. But the EPA shouldn't be able to show up on your property and fine you for letting water from your private pond drain into a ditch that runs into the local reservoir
Posted on 8/11/14 at 9:03 am to Tiger n Miami AU83
quote:
It seems many here just think gov regulation bad, free market good.
Maybe without knowing why or any real specifics or knowledge to back up that general belief.
As opposed to the detailed specifics you have provided in this post?
Posted on 8/11/14 at 9:05 am to Tiger n Miami AU83
quote:
Or do people really think government regulation is worthless and pure free markets (or almost completely free with practically no regulation) is desirable.
Probably many here do. As for me, I think in general that a minimal amount can produce better outcomes than none.
That said, in many markets regulated in the US, we are far beyond that efficient point, saddled with regulations that can suck for many possible reasons all to the harm of the consumer and upstart competitors:
- they become redundant and costly to navigate while doing little good
- they become obsolete
- they really just serve the interest of the powerful incumbents in that industry
- they simply have vapid policy goals to begin with or serve some emotional purpose
Posted on 8/11/14 at 9:05 am to BigJim
Well, my post was prompted by me watching the Enron documentary, Smartest guys in the room.
Deregulation of California's utilities allowed Enron to fleece the residents for billions. Cali pleaded for Gov to step in and regulate, but Bush appeared to be in bed with Enron and refused.
So, big companies stole several more billions from residents before the Dems gained control of the senate and pushed through regulations that ended the theft.
Seems to me without regulation of large and important industries, people would get fricked by the big companies A LOT.
Finance crisis that led to the recession was largely due to lax regulations.
Gov blocking the AT&T and T-Mobile merger due to anti trust regulations seems to have helped cell phone users (almost everyone).
Seems to me if you let big corps have free reign, lot of buttfricking of citizens would and does occur.
Deregulation of California's utilities allowed Enron to fleece the residents for billions. Cali pleaded for Gov to step in and regulate, but Bush appeared to be in bed with Enron and refused.
So, big companies stole several more billions from residents before the Dems gained control of the senate and pushed through regulations that ended the theft.
Seems to me without regulation of large and important industries, people would get fricked by the big companies A LOT.
Finance crisis that led to the recession was largely due to lax regulations.
Gov blocking the AT&T and T-Mobile merger due to anti trust regulations seems to have helped cell phone users (almost everyone).
Seems to me if you let big corps have free reign, lot of buttfricking of citizens would and does occur.
Posted on 8/11/14 at 9:08 am to Tiger n Miami AU83
quote:
Cali pleaded for Gov to step in and regulate, but Bush appeared to be in bed with Enron and refused.
dafug? the company collapsed 8 months into his presidency.
Posted on 8/11/14 at 9:11 am to Tiger n Miami AU83
There can be a middle ground between the two, but ideas such as that are met with the same disdain and fevered, emotional opposition as those who want zero government regulation.
For some odd reason, progressives seem to believe that "less regulation" equates to "zero regulation," an emotional argument perpetuated by dullards.
There is always a meeting point between the two.
For some odd reason, progressives seem to believe that "less regulation" equates to "zero regulation," an emotional argument perpetuated by dullards.
There is always a meeting point between the two.
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