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Started By
Message
Casualty Counts in Gaza
Posted on 8/9/14 at 9:06 am
Posted on 8/9/14 at 9:06 am
trackfan, you asked the question:
The prior article does not bother to address the issue of Palestinians killed by rockets launched from within Gaza that land in Gaza. According to another author:
If these reports are the least bit credible, then the casualty figures being released by the U.N. are very suspect, and one has to question the motives of the U.N. organizations and personnel releasing the figures. But one conclusion is certain, the 70-80% civilians that the U.N. has been reporting is regurgitated Hamas propaganda.
quote:According to a recent article by a non-Zionist source:
The 70-80% figure is the number the U.N. has been going with. Do you have a source that breaks down the casualties?
quote:Al-Kidra works for the Hamas Ministry of Health.
Al-Kidra uses a very broad definition of civilians, saying the term applies to anyone who has not been claimed by one of the armed groups as a member.
quote:
U.N. researchers start out with figures from the ministry, the media and other sources, but then cross-check them with the help of Palestinian, Israeli and international human rights groups.
quote:LINK
The highest toll has been provided by the Gaza-based Palestinian Center for Human Rights, which said 1,976 Palestinians were killed over the past month, almost 83 percent of them civilians.
The group's higher count of civilians is due, in part, to a broader definition. The PCHR says anyone who is not effectively participating in a military operation is a civilian, including a Hamas fighter who is killed at home while taking a break.
The prior article does not bother to address the issue of Palestinians killed by rockets launched from within Gaza that land in Gaza. According to another author:
quote:LINK
Finally, there’s the minor detail that some civilian casualties were caused by Hamas’s own misfired rockets. We know for certain about some such cases; for instance, an Italian journalist confirmed (after leaving Gaza) that one Palestinian rocket killed 10 Palestinians, including eight children, in a park in al-Shati. But there are undoubtedly many more that we don’t yet know about, because according to IDF data, almost a sixth of all Palestinian rockets launched–475 out of 3,137–landed in Gaza rather than Israel. That statistic is highly credible, because the Iron Dome system tracks every rocket’s trajectory to determine whether it needs intercepting, and couldn’t have achieved the success it did if its trajectory tracking system weren’t extremely accurate. And since Gaza has neither Iron Dome nor bomb shelters, Hamas rockets would be far more lethal there than they were in Israel.
If these reports are the least bit credible, then the casualty figures being released by the U.N. are very suspect, and one has to question the motives of the U.N. organizations and personnel releasing the figures. But one conclusion is certain, the 70-80% civilians that the U.N. has been reporting is regurgitated Hamas propaganda.
Posted on 8/9/14 at 9:12 am to Poodlebrain
quote:
If these reports are the least bit credible, then the casualty figures being released by the U.N. are very suspect, and one has to question the motives of the U.N. organizations and personnel releasing the figures. But one conclusion is certain, the 70-80% civilians that the U.N. has been reporting is regurgitated Hamas propaganda.
I don't believe I've commented on the whole Isreal/Hamas deal on this boar ever, simply because I don't care.
I'm the type that wishes we did not send any of our $$$ to either of these groups to assist them in blowing each other up.
If we woke up tomorrow and there was no Isreal, I would feel the same if we woke up and there was no Gaza or Hamas: I would not care. I would view it as tax money saved.
With that said, it is clear to me that Isreal, for whatever reason, is not the media darling in this scenario. The US media does not favor them, nor does the rest of the world. Don't know why, and don't care to know why.
Posted on 8/9/14 at 9:13 am to Poodlebrain
If you haven't read about the Ambulance hoax, this is worth reading.
What's interesting is the angles of the photos taken. If you saw the hole in the ambulance roof directly, it would be obvious it wasn't caused by a missile. The media are more than willing to carry their water.
What's interesting is the angles of the photos taken. If you saw the hole in the ambulance roof directly, it would be obvious it wasn't caused by a missile. The media are more than willing to carry their water.
Posted on 8/9/14 at 9:15 am to Poodlebrain
If you're saying that in the fog of war accurate casualty figures can be hard to come by, that some of the Gazan casualties may have been the victims of friendly and that Hamas has an incentive to distort these figures, I have no problem accepting that.
Posted on 8/9/14 at 9:25 am to trackfan
quote:
If you're saying...
If a Hamas spokesperson told me the Sun was made mostly of hydrogen, I'd want independent verification before I'd accept it.
Posted on 8/9/14 at 10:29 am to son of arlo
quote:
If a Hamas spokesperson told me the Sun was made mostly of hydrogen, I'd want independent verification before I'd accept it.
More generally speaking, I wouldn't take the word of the spokesperson for any nation's military on the facts surrounding a war they're involved in. Do you remember the crap we were told about Jessica Lynch and Pat Tillman? As the saying goes, the first casualty of war is the truth.
Posted on 8/9/14 at 10:45 am to trackfan
quote:I'm going past Hamas has the incentive to distort figure. I'm alleging that they are intentionally distorting them, and common sense is all it takes to recognize the fact of distortion. The extent of the distortion is open to debate.
If you're saying that in the fog of war accurate casualty figures can be hard to come by, that some of the Gazan casualties may have been the victims of friendly and that Hamas has an incentive to distort these figures, I have no problem accepting
P.S. If the standards for distinguishing between combatants and civilians used by the PCHR are applied, could any of the Israeli soldiers killed be reclassified as civilian casualties?
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