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re: Astros Drama Continues......
Posted on 7/19/14 at 4:21 pm to Prominentwon
Posted on 7/19/14 at 4:21 pm to Prominentwon
People keep saying damaged product which I don't understand. His UCL isn't torn. There could be absolutely no issue with his left arm.....ever. The astros made a huge mistake IMO. OK so we get #2 next year, they're just gonna pull the same shite. Plus it'll be a lot harder to sign guys under slot next year due to this. Over 1.5 million? Just don't get it.
Also why did we wait till 5 minutes before the deadline to up the offer to 5 mil? That's just a slap in the face. If you're willing to go that high don't insult the by waiting till the last minute.
ETA: and all of y'all swing they decided to lower it due to the UCL issue.....every pitcher has that risk. Look at all the players having TJ this year.
Also why did we wait till 5 minutes before the deadline to up the offer to 5 mil? That's just a slap in the face. If you're willing to go that high don't insult the by waiting till the last minute.
ETA: and all of y'all swing they decided to lower it due to the UCL issue.....every pitcher has that risk. Look at all the players having TJ this year.
This post was edited on 7/19/14 at 4:26 pm
2
Posted on 7/19/14 at 4:24 pm to Jwho77
quote:
Even with the Appel troubles, the Astros system is pitching deep. They valued #2 next year over a medically shaky #1 overall. the medical issues matter because they would have signed Aiken and Nix if NOT for those issues.
I don't think you can remove Nix from the calculus. They don't get compensated for not signing him. Marshall was a flier they had no legitimate hope of signing on draft day I would imagine. That's why he was drafted 21. Nix though, was pretty much part of their package at #1.
The slot value was 7.9, they were going to sign Aiken and Nix with that money basically. Instead they signed neither one. So #2 next year is more valuable than both prospects combined due to how they viewed Aiken post-physical.
I don't think the Astros decision was a disaster, just that it is disingenuous to say #2 next year is essentially a "do over." They get one less prospect out of the deal.
Posted on 7/19/14 at 4:28 pm to Ruxin
quote:
ETA: and all of y'all swing they decided to lower it due to the UCL issue.....every pitcher has that risk. Look at all the players having TJ this year.
Yes, every pitcher has risk...and they think he carries more risk than others because of whatever they saw in his arm.
Posted on 7/19/14 at 4:30 pm to Ruxin
quote:That's asinine.
ETA: and all of y'all swing they decided to lower it due to the UCL issue.....every pitcher has that risk. Look at all the players having TJ this year.
Posted on 7/19/14 at 4:33 pm to MOT
quote:
Yes, every pitcher has risk...and they think he carries more risk than others because of whatever they saw in his arm
You're paying a guy 3.25 million this year who hasn't thrown a pitch and may not throw one. We're talking about less than half that for someone why could be a top of the rotation arm.
This post was edited on 7/19/14 at 4:35 pm
Posted on 7/19/14 at 4:54 pm to Ruxin
One situation involves free agent spending on an established major league player recovering from injury. The other involves draft spending on a player that has never played a professional inning on any level. Yes, he could turn into a top of the rotation arm, or he could bust.
Posted on 7/19/14 at 5:04 pm to CrippleCreek
quote:
I don't think the Astros decision was a disaster, just that it is disingenuous to say #2 next year is essentially a "do over." They get one less prospect out of the deal.
Incorrect. They get two likely top five picks next year, which means a huge pool to play with yet again.
There can be another Nix and/or Marshall, just the 2015 versions.
Posted on 7/19/14 at 5:16 pm to Jwho77
Week even that line of think can be illogical
You lost 2 prospects this year
You gained 1 draft
Astros were already looking at a Top 5 pick....
Essentially you are drafting your own top 5 pick, the top 5 pick from missing this years #1, and still missing out on Nix. The Astros receive 0 compensation for him.
You lost 2 prospects this year
You gained 1 draft
Astros were already looking at a Top 5 pick....
Essentially you are drafting your own top 5 pick, the top 5 pick from missing this years #1, and still missing out on Nix. The Astros receive 0 compensation for him.
Posted on 7/19/14 at 5:21 pm to tduecen
quote:
Essentially you are drafting your own top 5 pick, the top 5 pick from missing this years #1, and still missing out on Nix. The Astros receive 0 compensation for him.
Except that if the do the exact same thing as far as sign the top two picks each a million under slot to offer a 5th rounder an extra million and another late guy an extra million. Then he is right, you end up with the same number of prospects just a year later.
Posted on 7/19/14 at 5:23 pm to dgtiger3
If you think the Astros FO is not going to continue the way they have handled first rounders the last few years because of what happened this year you are mistaken. What they do works as far as acquiring more talent in the draft, this year just has some unforeseen complcations due to a condition that concerned their medical staff.
Posted on 7/19/14 at 5:24 pm to tduecen
Or maybe they get a player with more value than Nix next year that they wouldn't have been able to without the expanded pool.
Posted on 7/19/14 at 5:36 pm to dgtiger3
They have to agree to get the prospects to sign under slot which won't be as assumed. Of course we aren't even including Marshall because we've all had the forgone conclusion he wasn't going to sign anyway. So basically Astros gave up that pick for nothing and regardless they lost a pick for nothing.
They lost 2 trying to get 3 this year
Next year they've picked up an extra pick but it may have been a pick they already had entitled to the that they get to sign anyway. We won't know specifics until after the season when FA begins and ends.
They lost 2 trying to get 3 this year
Next year they've picked up an extra pick but it may have been a pick they already had entitled to the that they get to sign anyway. We won't know specifics until after the season when FA begins and ends.
Posted on 7/19/14 at 5:40 pm to tduecen
quote:
First, there's reliever Jesse Crain. The Astros signed him last winter for $3.25 million. He has spent the entire season on the disabled list. The Astros also signed journeymen relievers Chad Qualls and Matt Albers last winter and are paying them a combined $5 million this season.
Nothing against those three guys, but they're not one-tenth of one percent as important to the franchise as Aiken might have been. Even on a club with baseball's lowest payroll ($45 million), the Astros didn't need to take a huge leap from their final offer of $5 million to the $6.5 million it would have taken to close the deal. The Astros just shouldn't have lost this kid over that amount of money.
Just six weeks ago, the Astros were openly and proudly comparing Aiken to Clayton Kershaw and Andy Pettitte.
"He's as advanced as any high school left-hander I've ever seen," general manager Jeff Luhnow said.
Take a moment to wrap your mind around those words. On a club that hasn't been to the postseason in nine years, a club that has averaged 108 losses the last three seasons, Aiken represented additional hope.
quote:
They apparently did not claim he was injured. They simply saw something on the MRI that prompted them to think he might be injured at some point in the future. Aiken's side emphatically disputed that anything showed up indicating he might be more susceptible to an injury. They apparently had orthopedists to support their opinion.
Anyway, the Astros backed away from the $6.5 million offer and wanted to renegotiate downward. If they'd stopped right there, they might simply have had a difference of opinion about the health of Aiken's elbow.
But the Astros did something that apparently infuriated Aiken and his advisor, Casey Close. If they could sign Aiken for, say, $5 million instead of $6.5 million, that would leave them with almost $3 million to spend on prep pitchers Jacob Nix and Mac Marshall, their fifth and 21st-round picks, respectively. To turn one slot into three players with very high ceilings would thrill the Astros.
Aiken refused to play this game. He believed he had a deal for $6.5 million. And that was a discount. He also believed that he had passed the physical.
Posted on 7/19/14 at 5:51 pm to tduecen
quote:
Nothing against those three guys, but they're not one-tenth of one percent as important to the franchise as Aiken might have been. Even on a club with baseball's lowest payroll ($45 million), the Astros didn't need to take a huge leap from their final offer of $5 million to the $6.5 million it would have taken to close the deal. The Astros just shouldn't have lost this kid over that amount of money.
I find it funny that there have been multiple articles comparing what current major leaguers are getting paid compared to prospects. The draft is setup the way it is, prospects that are drafted have a slotted value, after the tests the Astros no longer valued him for the 6.5 million, but they would still sign him for less in order to take all three. It's a pretty simple concept.
quote:
Just six weeks ago, the Astros were openly and proudly comparing Aiken to Clayton Kershaw and Andy Pettitte.
"He's as advanced as any high school left-hander I've ever seen," general manager Jeff Luhnow said.
Take a moment to wrap your mind around those words. On a club that hasn't been to the postseason in nine years, a club that has averaged 108 losses the last three seasons, Aiken represented additional hope.
EXACTLY why they wouldn't have let this kid get away unless what they saw with his elbow completely changed his perceived value, they spent a year coming to the conclusion that he was their guy.
Posted on 7/19/14 at 8:07 pm to msutiger
quote:
They don't need permission to draft him you tard. Aiken has no lawsuit. None what so ever. He wasn't wronged in any way. Astros found a medical concern, cleared it with Major League Baseball and reduced the offer. He's lucky he was offered 5 million. The Astros could have offered 3.1 and told Aiken that was the best he was going to get. The Astros broke no rules, Aiken has no chance in a law suit, so go ahead and drop that argument because quite frankly, it's ridiculous.
Actually they would you dumb frick, they cannot redraft him again unless he grants them permission. Learn the draft rule, since you know all about them. And actually if the Astros released his medical records without his permission, they broke the law an set themselves up for a suit that could cost them more then 6.5 million. Go read up in HIPPA laws.
Posted on 7/19/14 at 8:22 pm to tduecen
quote:
They have to agree to get the prospects to sign under slot which won't be as assumed.
It actually pretty much can be assumed. It has happened the past three years.
quote:
They lost 2 trying to get 3 this year
Simplifying it like everyone who thinks the Astros as lying about Aiken's medical condition. If you don't think they are lying, then you would not be saying this crap.
Posted on 7/19/14 at 8:59 pm to tigermike5
quote:They didn't release them.
Astros released his medical records without his permission, they broke the law
Back when Aiken came to sign and didn't,, Rosenthal or another writer said Aiken must have something wrong with him on account he didnt sign. That's when it started
Even when Luhnow was asked about if Aiken had an injury he said no comment
Posted on 7/19/14 at 9:20 pm to Smokedawg
Jeff Luhnow never released or reveiled Aikens medical condition or record. Aiken "Advisor" is the one who opened the can of worms blabbing all the info out in the media.
LINK
quote:
Luhnow declined to discuss Aiken’s physical condition, saying, “With regard to any health-related issues, we respect the privacy of the players involved and abide by Federal HIPAA regulations and will not comment on any specifics without the player’s consent.”
quote:
“Brady has been seen by some of the most experienced and respected orthopedic arm specialists in the country, and all of those doctors have acknowledged that he’s not injured and that he’s ready to start his professional career,” Close said.
LINK
Posted on 7/19/14 at 9:22 pm to BamaHater
Not that any of the Astros bashers care but the game is 4-3 White Sox top of the 9th.
Posted on 7/20/14 at 1:28 am to Smokedawg
quote:
ack when Aiken came to sign and didn't,, Rosenthal or another writer said Aiken must have something wrong with him on account he didnt sign. That's when it started
So Rosenthal just guessed small ucl and now it's known by Astros fan as a fact?
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