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1
Posted on 7/16/14 at 6:08 pm to Green Chili Tiger
I know he did in WWH. I just don't think it was a situation where he was trying to kill Hulk. I honestly don't remember.
several characters have beaten the hulk at points in history:
1. spider-man (albeit with cosmic powers)
2. the sentry
3. the leader
4. thor
5. iron man (with hulkbuster armor)
6. wolverine (albeit more of a "draw")
several characters have beaten the hulk at points in history:
1. spider-man (albeit with cosmic powers)
2. the sentry
3. the leader
4. thor
5. iron man (with hulkbuster armor)
6. wolverine (albeit more of a "draw")
Posted on 7/16/14 at 6:11 pm to Freauxzen
quote:
How is that convenient? That's part of the narrative, combine that with the idea that if Hulk is unleashed he smashes everything. Easy to understand.
If you only focus on the scene on the ship, and Hulk trying to kill all the good guys, and disregard the rest of the movie, then the ship scene works fine. Look at it all:
They (the good guys) were already weary of bringing Banner, because of the risk
He goes apeshit, and tries to kill everything (because of the staff)
He shows up later, and boy are they happy to see the baddest fricker in town, who just happens to have almost killed BW, and gave Thor all he could handle.
Yay! Now we get to hear someone say "Hulksmash"!!
Regardless, everything that happens on the ship is really just filler, for the most part.
quote:
Like i said, it wasn't communicated well but all the evidence was there.
I'm not arguing that there was something up with Loki's rod, and it made them fricked up. It just wasn't consistent with other shite that went down.
quote:
Later when? After they realize Loki and the Rod are messing with them?
No, when he taps tony on the chest with his rod, and it has no effect, implying that while Loki's rod might conquer the hearts of others, Tony's chest dealio is resistant to Loki's rod.
quote:
Maybe once you're conscious of being affected you aren't anymore, at least not without someone directly controlling the rod
This looks like it should end with a "?"
But again, Loki's rod/Tony's chest
quote:
The rod can sort of act on it's own. Considering it like the Ring of Power from LOTR. It affected everyone at the council and made them fight. But after the council it doesn't have much of an effect. Then Boromir picks it up and he feels it. Then he lets it go. Same kind of thing. It was a "will" because it's the mind control gem.
I fall asleep at the mere mention of LOTR. You example means little to me.
Posted on 7/16/14 at 6:20 pm to MrFreakinMiyagi
quote:
No, when he taps tony on the chest with his rod, and it has no effect, implying that while Loki's rod might conquer the hearts of others, Tony's chest dealio is resistant to Loki's rod.
No shite its resistant to the staff. It's a miniature fusion reactor. Touching that w/the tip of the staff would be a juuuust a bit different than simply tapping a chest covered with nothing but a shirt.
Otherwise why wouldn't Loki just hit the ground with his staff to zombify all the people surrounding him at once?
quote:
If you only focus on the scene on the ship, and Hulk trying to kill all the good guys, and disregard the rest of the movie, then the ship scene works fine. Look at it all:
They (the good guys) were already weary of bringing Banner, because of the risk
He goes apeshit, and tries to kill everything (because of the staff)
He shows up later, and boy are they happy to see the baddest fricker in town, who just happens to have almost killed BW, and gave Thor all he could handle.
Yay! Now we get to hear someone say "Hulksmash"!!
Again, you have to consider that there is a difference between a forced change and a change that Banner does on purpose.
When he is changed on the helicarrier it was not b/c he wanted to. It was b/c of the shock of the explosion and the influence of the Mind Stone (which he had no idea was influencing him at the time).
Later on its a change that he does b/c he and his Hulk ego have a unified goal. Its controlled rage this time instead of wild anger caused by a sudden attack.
This is somewhat explored in Incredible Hulk when he fights Abomination compared to when he is raging against the military earlier on (which is only tempered b/c of Betty's presence). shite man, he straight tried to murder Blonsky twice in that movie. He only failed b/c (A) Blonsky was saved by the super soldier derived drug he was injected with and (B) because Betty stops him the second time.
This post was edited on 7/16/14 at 6:30 pm
Posted on 7/16/14 at 6:23 pm to jmarto1
Hulks infinite strength is more of a theory that has never resulted in hulk being invincible. He's lost fights.
And superman can indeed plant him on the sun. Would this kill hulk? I think so. Its more extreme than a nuclear blast. The sun is a constant nuclear bomb that won't stop. Besides, even if the sun didn't kill hulk, what can he do from there? If he's stuck in a molten ball of plasma? Superman has near equal strength, faster, laser vision, flight. Supes wins.
And superman can indeed plant him on the sun. Would this kill hulk? I think so. Its more extreme than a nuclear blast. The sun is a constant nuclear bomb that won't stop. Besides, even if the sun didn't kill hulk, what can he do from there? If he's stuck in a molten ball of plasma? Superman has near equal strength, faster, laser vision, flight. Supes wins.
Posted on 7/16/14 at 6:29 pm to Freauxzen
quote:
Of course not. But Hulk's change isn't one of them.
Yes it was
quote:
Again, the Hulk is unpredictable. Simple. And that is at the core of the character. Pair that with a rod of strange power over people and you have a recipe for Hulk to be unleashed.
Exactly. Thanks for proving my point.
Why would you want that guy anywhere near shite when it hit the fan?
Why would he think it would be a good idea to go anywhere near that shite?
Dude tries to kill all the good guys..... Then immediately heads to join them to fight the dude with the funky rod, which was the cause of his murderous rampage against the good guys.
How does he, or anyone think this is a good idea?
Because he's the hulk, and he'll conveniently be there so that we get our "Hulksmash", and this time...... It'll all be good.
Posted on 7/16/14 at 6:37 pm to MrFreakinMiyagi
quote:
Because he's the hulk, and he'll conveniently be there so that we get our "Hulksmash", and this time...... It'll all be good.
Truth. He's very in control when the story needs him to be
Posted on 7/16/14 at 6:52 pm to biglego
quote:
Superman has near equal strength, faster, laser vision, flight. Supes wins.
Hulk doesn't just have super strength. He mutates. That is how he was able to survive in space in the first place.
In a reality with super powers there is nothing to stop Hulk from mutating a power that enables him to free himself from the Sun. If the Sun gives Superman his power then it is certainly plausible in the Super Hero Universe that Hulk could mutate some power that enables him to be free.
Sentry is the Marvel equivalent of Superman with telepathic powers and no adverse weakness. Hulk destroyed Sentry.
Sure Hulk has lost fights. Superman has been killed by brute strength.
You guys keep bringing up the sun like it is a foregone conclusion that Superman has the strength to hold Hulk. That is not a given.
Neither of us can be proven right or wrong so there are plausible arguments for either to win. Saying otherwise and you are simply being a fanboy incapable of real debate.,
Posted on 7/16/14 at 6:54 pm to MrFreakinMiyagi
quote:
Exactly. Thanks for proving my point.
Why would you want that guy anywhere near shite when it hit the fan?
Why would he think it would be a good idea to go anywhere near that shite?
Once again, even Hulk can control his rage enough to make friends. Hulk was married. Not Banner. Hulk.
In a 2 hour movie, it is near impossible to show Hulk going from rage against everyone to Hulk being able to remain Hulk while at the same time discerning enemies from friends. You just have to go with it.
I seem to recall him knowing not to smash Betty to jam in the Hulk movie.
Wasn't a problem for me since I've read the strip for 100s of years.
This post was edited on 7/16/14 at 7:01 pm
Posted on 7/16/14 at 7:01 pm to biglego
quote:
And superman can indeed plant him on the sun. Would this kill hulk? I think so. Its more extreme than a nuclear blast. The sun is a constant nuclear bomb that won't stop. Besides, even if the sun didn't kill hulk, what can he do from there? If he's stuck in a molten ball of plasma? Superman has near equal strength, faster, laser vision, flight. Supes wins.
This is what I'm going with. Even if Hulk could somehow survive in the center of the sun, he couldn't get out of it. What's he going to do, mutate a jet pack and fly out of it?
Plus I'm not convinced that Supes heat vision couldn't penetrate his skin and bones. I know there have been comics showing Hulk bleeding from bullet holes. And I'm pretty sure that Wolverine was able to stab Hulk with his claws. So why couldn't Supes just cut his head off with his heat vision and boot it into the sun?
This post was edited on 7/16/14 at 7:03 pm
Posted on 7/16/14 at 7:07 pm to Bamatab
quote:How many marvel and DC characters FLY?
, he couldn't get out of it
Superman flies for no reason other than it was written he could fly. How hard is it to understand that Hulk mutates to stay alive.
He mutated in space to not need air. How hard is it to understand he might be able to mutate the ability to fly. No more out of the realm of possibility than Superman being able to fly.
And once again, you haven't in any way proven Superman could even carry Hulk to the Sun.
You both keep skimming over the fact that Doomsday killed Superman with strength. NO KRYPTONITE.
Posted on 7/16/14 at 7:15 pm to TigerMyth36
Found this:
TL;DR: The two DID fight in at least 3 different comics. Superman had 2 clear victories and one sorta-clear victory on points.
Fight #1: 1981 "DC and MARVEL present: #28: SUPERMAN and SPIDER-MAN".
That comic featured a fight between Hulk and Superman.
Hulk gets all hulked-out... but can't hurt or move Superman.
In the end, he's so exhausted, he converts back to Bruce Banner.
This clearly shows Superman winning.
Fight #2: 1996 "MARVEL COMIC vs DC #3: The showdow of the century".
It was a part of this special series: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DC_vs._Marvel
Hulk vs Superman were one of the 5 fights which were decided by fan votes.
Superman made Hulk bleed from mouth and then knocked him out.
This clearly shows Superman winning.
Fight #3: 2001 "The Incredible Hulk vs. Superman". Play-by-play:
Hulk hits Superman pretty hard - knockdown.
Hulk throws Superman high up. No damage.
Superman flies fast and knocks Hulk away, through a bunch of rock. Knockdown.
Superman twirls Hulk, and throws him far far away
They fight some more, no damage.
Both are blasted from the sky with some rockets shot by presumably militarty. Both had wind knocked out of them.
Hulk throws a bunch of rockets at Superman.
All the while Superman tries to tell Hulk they were set up and shouldn't fight. While punching him, successfully :)
Then Hulk listened.
This one was more even handed but Superman has an edge as he hurt/knocked down/punched off Hulk more than vice versa.
LINK
TL;DR: The two DID fight in at least 3 different comics. Superman had 2 clear victories and one sorta-clear victory on points.
Fight #1: 1981 "DC and MARVEL present: #28: SUPERMAN and SPIDER-MAN".
That comic featured a fight between Hulk and Superman.
Hulk gets all hulked-out... but can't hurt or move Superman.
In the end, he's so exhausted, he converts back to Bruce Banner.
This clearly shows Superman winning.
Fight #2: 1996 "MARVEL COMIC vs DC #3: The showdow of the century".
It was a part of this special series: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DC_vs._Marvel
Hulk vs Superman were one of the 5 fights which were decided by fan votes.
Superman made Hulk bleed from mouth and then knocked him out.
This clearly shows Superman winning.
Fight #3: 2001 "The Incredible Hulk vs. Superman". Play-by-play:
Hulk hits Superman pretty hard - knockdown.
Hulk throws Superman high up. No damage.
Superman flies fast and knocks Hulk away, through a bunch of rock. Knockdown.
Superman twirls Hulk, and throws him far far away
They fight some more, no damage.
Both are blasted from the sky with some rockets shot by presumably militarty. Both had wind knocked out of them.
Hulk throws a bunch of rockets at Superman.
All the while Superman tries to tell Hulk they were set up and shouldn't fight. While punching him, successfully :)
Then Hulk listened.
This one was more even handed but Superman has an edge as he hurt/knocked down/punched off Hulk more than vice versa.
LINK
Posted on 7/16/14 at 7:24 pm to jmarto1
The interwebs says all 3 battles aren't canon. Also says in only 1 did Superman clearly win. Also states that in that battle, Hulk was still in the desert from his initial transformation into the Hulk, thus he might not have actually settled into his full power.
Which makes sense. I've always gone with the whatever doesn't kill him makes him stronger belief that each bit of damage he takes makes him stronger in the next battle.
All info comes from nerds on the interwebs so it must be factual.
Which makes sense. I've always gone with the whatever doesn't kill him makes him stronger belief that each bit of damage he takes makes him stronger in the next battle.
All info comes from nerds on the interwebs so it must be factual.
Posted on 7/16/14 at 7:25 pm to TigerMyth36
quote:
He mutated in space to not need air. How hard is it to understand he might be able to mutate the ability to fly.
He has been in outer space at different times, and has yet to mutate flight capabilities. Maybe he can, but he hasn't yet.
quote:
And once again, you haven't in any way proven Superman could even carry Hulk to the Sun.
No one can prove anything. It is all theory. These are freaking comic book characters that we are talking about.
quote:
You both keep skimming over the fact that Doomsday killed Superman with strength. NO KRYPTONITE.
I'm not skimming over this fact. If Supes goes toe to toe in a fist fight, then Hulk will eventually get mad enough to kill Superman. But I think Hulk has to go through several degrees of anger to reach and surpass Supes strength. I'm theorizing that Supes can grab the Hulk and get him to the sun before Hulk gets mad enough to beat Supes. If not, he could at least get him into space and just let Hulk float around. Then he can push the Hulk to the sun with his freeze breath or heat vision.
Again, why can't Supes just cut off Hulks head with his heat vision? Would Hulk just mutate a new head?
This post was edited on 7/16/14 at 7:30 pm
Posted on 7/16/14 at 7:35 pm to Bamatab
Show me where Superman's heat vision is stronger than a nuke.
Also what you keep discounting is that Superman is not out to kill. EVER. That would be his flaw in a true battle with Hulk.
He would keep trying to subdue the Hulk while the Hulk would just keep getting angrier and angrier.
It is also quite possible the Hulk would mutate another head. Since nobody has ever been able to do that much damage to him it is plausible.
If Superman can come back from real death and not saved by a time or dimensional shift, then the hulk can regrow a head.
Also what you keep discounting is that Superman is not out to kill. EVER. That would be his flaw in a true battle with Hulk.
He would keep trying to subdue the Hulk while the Hulk would just keep getting angrier and angrier.
quote:I'm not the one saying it is not even worth discussion. The other guy said that. I actually said we couldn't prove it one way or the other.
No one can prove anything. It is all theory. These are freaking comic book characters that we are talking about
It is also quite possible the Hulk would mutate another head. Since nobody has ever been able to do that much damage to him it is plausible.
If Superman can come back from real death and not saved by a time or dimensional shift, then the hulk can regrow a head.
Posted on 7/16/14 at 7:36 pm to Dr RC
quote:
It was b/c of the shock of the explosion and the influence of the Mind Stone (which he had no idea was influencing him at the time).
Shock of the explosion? No. He had a concussion.
Influence of the Mind Stone? likely
Posted on 7/16/14 at 7:39 pm to Thracken13
quote:
actually Deadpool killed the entire Marvel Universe.
Couldn't Deadpool just jump out of the comic book and burn the book?
Posted on 7/16/14 at 7:43 pm to CGSC Lobotomy
And what the hell is up with comic book death? Back in my day it was staggering for a character to die. If you look up Super Hero deaths there weren't many before the late 90s then BAM. Everyone is dying left and right.
Then everyone was creating alternate universes just so they could kill everyone off and start all over.
The effect is meaningless now.
Hell, If they kill someone big, i'm not remotely affected by the death because I don't believe it. Even if it was REAL and PERMANENT, it won't have emotional impact because I won't believe it is real.
Then everyone was creating alternate universes just so they could kill everyone off and start all over.
The effect is meaningless now.
Hell, If they kill someone big, i'm not remotely affected by the death because I don't believe it. Even if it was REAL and PERMANENT, it won't have emotional impact because I won't believe it is real.
Posted on 7/16/14 at 7:44 pm to TigerMyth36
Think I'm going team hulk. I think he gets pissed enough pretty quickly after his initial attack is laughed at by superman and supes flys around and frys him with the heat vision and all. Plus superman is in the tights and cape which makes hulk feel like a pussy for not being able to hurt him.
So hulk gets beserker pissed quickly, loses his shite entirely and just pummels superman into oblivion.
So hulk gets beserker pissed quickly, loses his shite entirely and just pummels superman into oblivion.
Posted on 7/16/14 at 7:47 pm to Tiger n Miami AU83
Did Reed Richards come up with super elastic pants for Banner so he isn't always waking up nude?
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