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Message
Rick Santelli goes bonkers attacking QE and the fed
Posted on 7/15/14 at 8:49 am
Posted on 7/15/14 at 8:49 am
LINK
Pretty much sums up my frustration with QE, easy money and the federal reserve. All it has done is prop up the stock market, which is essentially bailing out the mega banks and further enriching the wealthy.
I would love for someone on this board to defend QE. I know people on the money board do.
Pretty much sums up my frustration with QE, easy money and the federal reserve. All it has done is prop up the stock market, which is essentially bailing out the mega banks and further enriching the wealthy.
I would love for someone on this board to defend QE. I know people on the money board do.
quote:
First, Santelli says the Fed has done enough (and it hasn't worked "but to get the market higher") to which Liesman's "but higher interest rates won't help" argument is backed up by more counterfactuals of "just think how bad it would have been" without the Fed. Santelli's screamfest rightly attests that we do not know - we might have been well on our way to recovery by now... and adds that - despite Liesman's imploring, "the Fed was not created to be a feel-good institution."
quote:
Finally, slamming the herd of zombified analysts and talking-heads that follow sheep-like the Fed's every word off the inevitable cliff, Santelli blasts (unafraid to stand up for the jobless Americans not driving their new Rolls-Royce on the back of levered 'wealth creation' in stocks), "This is America! We don't follow consensus, we set it!"
quote:
The "people" never caused the crisis that the Fed bailed the banks out of... Liesman cannot let "low rates" go and Santelli explains how capital will come out if it can get a decent return and the status quo thinkers have it backwards... "The Fed was not created to be a feel good instituion"
quote:
Simply put - the market's unstoppable rise provides any and every talking head status-quo apologist with the ammunition to "prove" the fed was right... when all the data shows it has done little if anything but bail out banks, enrich the wealthy, increase inequality, and shows no signs of stopping...
This post was edited on 7/15/14 at 8:50 am
4
Posted on 7/15/14 at 8:53 am to goldennugget
quote:
Pretty much sums up my frustration with QE, easy money and the federal reserve. All it has done is prop up the stock market, which is essentially bailing out the mega banks and further enriching the wealthy
The real insulting part too is that Obama was able to go out there and pander to these occupy wall street types as if he was against wall street.
The worst part is this $85 billion a month in QE has been going on for six years now and there doesn't seem to be any outrage anywhere.
Posted on 7/15/14 at 8:59 am to goldennugget
This should be posted as a rebuttal to any jackass that seriously tries to credit Obama with the stock market gains:
Posted on 7/15/14 at 9:02 am to udtiger
quote:
This should be posted as a rebuttal to any jackass that seriously tries to credit Obama with the stock market gains:
Bain Capital! Ann Romney owns a horse!
Posted on 7/15/14 at 9:10 am to constant cough
quote:
$85 billion a month in QE has been going on for six years now
Factually inaccurate. July purchases will be less than half that. Pretty sure the last month it was $85 bil was sometime late 2013.
ETA: Santelli IRATE, and wrong, and stupid.
This post was edited on 7/15/14 at 9:13 am
Posted on 7/15/14 at 9:14 am to goldennugget
Zerohedge??? Seriously??? 
Posted on 7/15/14 at 9:21 am to 90proofprofessional
quote:
ETA: Santelli IRATE, and wrong, and stupid.
Please enlighten us on how great QE is and how it should never stop
It's pathetic that a 5-year CD is going for a 1% return these days. People like me who like to save are screwed because we can't park our money anywhere that has an interest rate that can even come close to beating inflation.
Posted on 7/15/14 at 9:38 am to goldennugget
quote:
how it should never stop
It should, and it is. Very likely by October. You need to expand your sources man.
quote:
pathetic that a 5-year CD is going for a 1% return these days. People like me who like to save are screwed because we can't park our money anywhere that has an interest rate that can even come close to beating inflation.
I don't see why we all seem to feel so entitled to such security with such a guaranteed return? Especially weird to complain about lack of investment opportunity while complaining about a program successfully stoking asset prices.
Posted on 7/15/14 at 9:40 am to 90proofprofessional
quote:
Especially weird to complain about lack of investment opportunity while complaining about a program successfully stoking asset prices.
Because the program is an incredibly obvious bubble?
Posted on 7/15/14 at 9:41 am to Iosh
quote:
the program is an incredibly obvious bubble
Substantiate please, including a way to prove/falsify.
Posted on 7/15/14 at 9:47 am to 90proofprofessional
quote:
Factually inaccurate. July purchases will be less than half that. Pretty sure the last month it was $85 bil was sometime late 2013.
Oh ok, so only 5 years of pumping $85 billion a month and now it's only like $40 billion according to you. I guess that makes it all ok.
quote:
ETA: Santelli IRATE, and wrong, and stupid.
He's not wrong. All that QE pumping did was devalue the dollar. But hey if your portfolio is up then who cares right? It's free money to them!
Posted on 7/15/14 at 9:50 am to constant cough
quote:
I guess that makes it all ok.
Well, what you were saying was wrong, and suggested an out-of-date understanding of the policy. You're correct in that the correction is not central to the issue of the policy's usefulness or effectiveness.
quote:
All that QE pumping did was devalue the dollar. But hey if your portfolio is up then who cares right?
How can it cause one's portfolio to go up if "All that QE pumping did was devalue the dollar"? Are you saying the resulting inflation has offset the stock market gains such that the real gain has been 0?
Posted on 7/15/14 at 9:58 am to constant cough
obama has pandered to all sorts of groups and fooled them. That jackass wants to rail on big business and say how much he wants to help small business, but who benefits from all this regulation on companies? You guessed it....the big companies who can absorb the cost. People who take these assholes at face value are lost balls in high weeds.
Posted on 7/15/14 at 10:03 am to 90proofprofessional
quote:
Well, what you were saying was wrong, and suggested an out-of-date understanding of the policy. You're correct in that the correction is not central to the issue of the policy's usefulness or effectiveness.
Well not that out of date you yourself said they only stopped pumping $85 billion a month in late 2013, that's not even a full year ago.
quote:
How can it cause one's portfolio to go up if "All that QE pumping did was devalue the dollar"? Are you saying the resulting inflation has offset the stock market gains such that the real gain has been 0?
The gain is definitely 0 to people such as myself who don't have any stock. That's why I say all it did was devalue the dollar.
And that the people with portfolio's don't care about that as long as they've personally come out ahead. Hey free inflated dollars is better than no free dollars I guess is the way they look at it.
Posted on 7/15/14 at 10:09 am to constant cough
quote:
he gain is definitely 0 to people such as myself who don't have any stock. That's why I say all it did was devalue the dollar.
Increased asset prices makes holders wealthier- which in turn stokes consumption and investment (and by a greater degree than it harms savings!)- unless directly offset by inflation.
Unless you opt to hold pure savings in lieu of some type of investment (aka "hoarding"), or have simply gambled on bad investments, you have benefited.
quote:
Hey free inflated dollars is better than no free dollars I guess is the way they look at it.
Even with QE, inflation has been below target and trend, and remains so. It was in fact higher before QE1 was a thing!
Posted on 7/15/14 at 10:10 am to 90proofprofessional
quote:
Substantiate please, including a way to prove/falsify.
You have the burden of proof wrong. I've not heard any satisfactory fundamentals explaining the stock market rise beyond bare Fed manipulation. Every other indicator of economic health is flat or slightly negative. GDP sucks, M2 velocity sucks, the price indices suck, housing starts have "risen" to half their historical average. The employment rate is a result of us basically just waiting the long-term unemployed out of the labor force and is barely absorbing new workers now, as you can see by observing that the civilian labor force has been flat for seven years.
I think Santelli is an idiot and I don't give a shite about inflation right now. But even a broken clock is right twice a day and even an idiot can see that this "recovery" is hollow as shite.
This post was edited on 7/24/14 at 1:16 am
Posted on 7/15/14 at 10:14 am to Iosh
quote:
You have the burden of proof wrong.
You made the assertion, and you even labeled it "obvious."
Seriously, how can we test if this is a bubble? What part of the economy is inflated? All of it? The stock market only? Any particular sectors? What level should they be at? When QE ends, does the bubble pop? And what does that mean- will the stock market return to where it was at the beginning of QE1?
ETA: this is the only conversation in this thread I now find productive. If there's some way to estimate this bubble, I sense an opportunity to make some money.
This post was edited on 7/15/14 at 10:17 am
Posted on 7/15/14 at 10:17 am to 90proofprofessional
quote:
You made the assertion, and you even labeled it "obvious."
Seriously, how can we test if this is a bubble?
Ask a smart-arse like you why the stock market and nothing else is rising and see if they give lucid answers or dodge the questions.
Posted on 7/15/14 at 10:17 am to 90proofprofessional
quote:
Seriously, how can we test if this is a bubble? What part of the economy is inflated? All of it? The stock market only? Any particular sectors? What level should they be at? When QE ends, does the bubble pop? And what does that mean- will the stock market return to where it was at the beginning of QE1?
Just look at how the stock market reacts each time QE possibly being ended or reduced is mentioned.
Posted on 7/15/14 at 10:18 am to 90proofprofessional
quote:
Increased asset prices makes holders wealthier- which in turn stokes consumption and investment (and by a greater degree than it harms savings!)- unless directly offset by inflation.
Which asset prices have increased? There are all sorts of assets and a lot of them have lost value.
I don't see how that stokes consumption anyway other than maybe from the guy who owns the assets. If I hear my neighbor that he has a condo as an asset that's now worth more to him that's not gonna make me go out and spend more money. It doesn't even necessarily mean he's going to spend more.
quote:
Even with QE, inflation has been below target and trend, and remains so. It was in fact higher before QE1 was a thing!
I don't believe the inflation figures anymore than I believe Obama's job figures. Those numbers are manipulated by the very people who are profiting from the QE.
Can't defend it forever though, it's a bubble and it will pop at some point.
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