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Anyone see this story about CYNK?

Posted on 7/10/14 at 5:46 pm
Posted by Sho Nuff
Oahu
Member since Feb 2009
11900 posts
Posted on 7/10/14 at 5:46 pm
It's a trap!
Shares started at .10 and are over $14 now. The company has no profit, no assets, no revenue but it's worth $4.29 billion

Oh and there's only 1 employee.
Posted by TheHiddenFlask
The Welsh red light district
Member since Jul 2008
18384 posts
Posted on 7/10/14 at 5:49 pm to
If only I could short it.
Posted by Ole War Skule
North Shore
Member since Sep 2003
3409 posts
Posted on 7/10/14 at 6:46 pm to
comical as hell....talking heads at CNBC were going ballistic over it around lunch today...as if the 'real' market is absent of this sort of manipulation

Posted by Sho Nuff
Oahu
Member since Feb 2009
11900 posts
Posted on 7/10/14 at 6:58 pm to


There was 100,000 shares trades today. WTF is trading this shite?
This post was edited on 7/10/14 at 6:59 pm
Posted by rintintin
Life is Life
Member since Nov 2008
16153 posts
Posted on 7/10/14 at 7:24 pm to
Imagine if you bought at the bottom
Posted by Sho Nuff
Oahu
Member since Feb 2009
11900 posts
Posted on 7/10/14 at 9:51 pm to
I bought $3,000 worth of a penny stock a friend kept telling me about around 2000/1 when I was in film school in SF. I finally got in between $.07-.10 a share. I had about 40,000 shares. Anyway, years go by and this thing all of a sudden takes off. I sell at $.50-.60 a share. It goes up to $1

BUT, it dropped back down to the teens within a year so I was pretty damn stoked I got out with over $20k

These days you can't even find it. It was called Jaguar Nickel (JNI) at the end. I think it was called something else when I first bought it.
Posted by The Egg
Houston, TX
Member since Dec 2004
79106 posts
Posted on 7/11/14 at 10:23 am to
suspended today
Posted by Mootsman
Charlotte, NC
Member since Oct 2012
6024 posts
Posted on 7/11/14 at 12:56 pm to
quote:

If only I could short it.


Good thing you didn't

LINK
Posted by TheHiddenFlask
The Welsh red light district
Member since Jul 2008
18384 posts
Posted on 7/11/14 at 3:10 pm to
12% margin will seem small when the stock drops 99% over the next week.
Posted by TigerstuckinMS
Member since Nov 2005
33687 posts
Posted on 7/11/14 at 3:11 pm to
quote:

Good thing you didn't


Cliff's Notes on the world of hurt the guy who shorted before the stock was halted is living in?
Posted by Sho Nuff
Oahu
Member since Feb 2009
11900 posts
Posted on 7/11/14 at 5:05 pm to
quote:

suspended today

Posted by Iowa Golfer
Heaven
Member since Dec 2013
10229 posts
Posted on 7/11/14 at 9:35 pm to
The guy that's short is in a really, really good position. I'm not sure why his margin rate is 12%. Usually brokers give the ability to short to larger accounts with better margin credit. Odd deal. I'd guess an average margin rate should be under 5% for a trading account of any size, and no way a broker lets a guy trade who is worried about paying margin interest.

In any event, the lending broker will eventually zero out the receivable, and the guys stands to make some decent money predicated on his paying the interest.

He needs to think it through. Or if he can't carry the interest, both he and Scott Trade need to rethink why he is marginable and why the trade was allowed.
Posted by TheHiddenFlask
The Welsh red light district
Member since Jul 2008
18384 posts
Posted on 7/12/14 at 8:47 am to
Margin rates for shorting are determimed more by the security shorted than the borrower.

You aren't borrow in cash, you are borrowing the secuities, so the rate is determined by whatever large investors agree to sign a securities lending agreement. Then the broker adds a spread for his time and risk based capital.
Posted by Iowa Golfer
Heaven
Member since Dec 2013
10229 posts
Posted on 7/12/14 at 10:40 am to
If you short you'd be borrowing both the security and cash.

On shorts, you'd have both a Fed and House requirement. The house is usually more conservative than the Fed. Rates are solely determined by brokerage firm and based on size of account and credit risk. Individual securities have individual margin requirements based on a number of things, both Fed and house again.

So as an example my trading account indicates 100% margin equity currently. If I shorted a stock, a number of things change including, but not limited to, total market value, purchasing power of both marginable and non-marginable securities, available to withdraw, net cash/margin balance, margin equity and margin equity percentage.
This post was edited on 7/12/14 at 10:49 am
Posted by Iowa Golfer
Heaven
Member since Dec 2013
10229 posts
Posted on 7/12/14 at 10:59 am to
CYNK was (is) 100% long/short. Rates determined by broker.

If you shorted 100 shares at 13.90, it would likely take a combined total of $13K in margin to complete this trade. On my account to buy 13K of margin would cost about $510 in cash as it would result in a house call of this amount. You'd pay interst on the cash excess and margin excess. They'd reserve cash and securities to ensure you could buy to cover at whatever ratio the house determines. In this case on my account, 10X the short due to the degree of risk in the trade.

Back to Scott Trade. They could have an issue allowing a guy like this to short a stock like this.
Posted by Iowa Golfer
Heaven
Member since Dec 2013
10229 posts
Posted on 7/12/14 at 11:03 am to
Unless he has portfolio margin. But I doubt it at 12%.

He's lucky he's with Scott Trade which is a fairly basic site. If he was with IB, they could, and might start immediate liquidation.
Posted by TheHiddenFlask
The Welsh red light district
Member since Jul 2008
18384 posts
Posted on 7/12/14 at 1:02 pm to
I agree with all of that, except that you are certainly not borrowing cash.

Everything else was pretty much right on, but was not relevant to what I said.
Posted by Iowa Golfer
Heaven
Member since Dec 2013
10229 posts
Posted on 7/12/14 at 5:55 pm to
In the case of CYNK you'd be borrowing cash. When you short a stock like this, they use non marginable available cash as reserve to guaranty a buy to cover. You sell. Your account gets credited the short sale proceeds. Immediately there is a 100% margin requirement on this security. And it's up the the broker how to apply it. CYNK would be applied in cash at over 100%. You either have the cash to buy to cover, or they lend it to you using your marginable securities as collateral.

IB is about the most sophisticated trading account a retail investor can have. They start portfolio margin at the 100K level. I went in to their margin calculator and figured it up for CYNK. Cash would be borrowed. More so in my e-trade account where they want 10X, but in both cases cash is either made unavailable, or monies lent on the short sale to cover the buy to cover.

Go ahead and get online and go to your broker's margin calculator. Enter a potential short sale on CYNK. See what happens to your net cash/margin balance on a $1,300 short sale for a stock like this.

This post was edited on 7/12/14 at 5:58 pm
Posted by RidiculousHype
St. George, LA
Member since Sep 2007
10186 posts
Posted on 7/13/14 at 12:28 am to
quote:

Iowa Golfer


quote:

TheHiddenFlask


This is like watching two financial heavyweights go at it. I have no idea what either of you are talking about but I'll be interested to see how this plays out
Posted by Iowa Golfer
Heaven
Member since Dec 2013
10229 posts
Posted on 7/13/14 at 10:29 am to
Theory -v- Practice. In theory you borrow shares only. As a practical matter, since your broker needs to put up 102% cash equivalent as collateral, and sometimes you get a rebate of the fees accrued, at least I do from IB, you are required to put up cash, or cash equivalents.

For almost all retail investors when they short they are borrowing cash and shares. You don't pay interest on shares borrowed you pay fees. Your charges are expressed in interest because there is a cash component to it.

Again, go to your brokers margin calculator if you have a margin account, and enter a short for CYNK. Pay close attention what happens to your cash balance.
This post was edited on 7/13/14 at 10:31 am
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