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Message
The ACLU's disappointing stance on the Hobby Lobby decision
Posted on 7/2/14 at 10:08 pm
Posted on 7/2/14 at 10:08 pm
LINK
People are losing sight of what this debacle is really is really about. I respect the the ACLU and they do really good work as they are a very pro freedom organization but they forget the greater civil liberty here and that's private property rights and religious freedom.
The bolded is simply so deceptive and vague. The employees and the gov't are violating the employers religious beliefs by forcing them to cover something they have a religious objection to. That's bad enough and then they say their reproductive care is not their employers business? Uh it clearly is when their boss is paying for it. Don't like it? Pay for it on your own, this decision is not stopping you from doing that and it's hilarious how people are neglecting to mention that. It's all about them.
With regards to ObamaCare and the constiution, in what world do they think that statutory laws can supersede constiutional rights?
quote:
The American Civil Liberties Union, religious organizations, other civil rights and women’s health groups, business leaders, and members of Congress filed friend-of-the-court briefs arguing that the companies’ owners cannot impose their personal religious beliefs on employees to withhold coverage for health services with which they disagree.
"This is a deeply troubling decision. For the first time, the highest court in the country has said that business owners can use their religious beliefs to deny their employees a benefit that they are guaranteed by law," said Louise Melling, deputy legal director of the ACLU. "Religious freedom is a fundamental right, but that freedom does not include the right to impose beliefs on others. In its ruling today, the Court simply got it wrong."
People are losing sight of what this debacle is really is really about. I respect the the ACLU and they do really good work as they are a very pro freedom organization but they forget the greater civil liberty here and that's private property rights and religious freedom.
The bolded is simply so deceptive and vague. The employees and the gov't are violating the employers religious beliefs by forcing them to cover something they have a religious objection to. That's bad enough and then they say their reproductive care is not their employers business? Uh it clearly is when their boss is paying for it. Don't like it? Pay for it on your own, this decision is not stopping you from doing that and it's hilarious how people are neglecting to mention that. It's all about them.
With regards to ObamaCare and the constiution, in what world do they think that statutory laws can supersede constiutional rights?
20
Posted on 7/2/14 at 10:12 pm to Sentrius
It's mind-boggling. No one is forced to work at Hobby Lobby.
Posted on 7/2/14 at 10:19 pm to Sentrius
(no message)
This post was edited on 4/20/21 at 8:41 pm
Posted on 7/2/14 at 10:19 pm to Sentrius
1) No one if forced to work at HL
2) If you DO work at HL, you are not barred from using birth control
End of story. There is no "imposing" of beliefs on the part of the owners.
2) If you DO work at HL, you are not barred from using birth control
End of story. There is no "imposing" of beliefs on the part of the owners.
Posted on 7/2/14 at 10:24 pm to HailHailtoMichigan!
(no message)
This post was edited on 4/20/21 at 8:39 pm
Posted on 7/2/14 at 10:28 pm to Tiguar
quote:
It's mind-boggling. No one is forced to work at Hobby Lobby.
Now don't bring any of that logical thinking and self accountability into this (faux) "civil rights" crusade
Posted on 7/2/14 at 10:31 pm to efrad
quote:As far as I know, Labor laws do not open a can of worms when it comes to constitutional rights. The point holds though. The behavior of the EMPLOYEE is not in any sense restricted by this ruling. And the boss has every damn right to deny certain benefits. It's his damn company. Petulant thieves are on the other side.
labor laws
Posted on 7/2/14 at 10:39 pm to HailHailtoMichigan!
(no message)
This post was edited on 4/20/21 at 8:42 pm
Posted on 7/2/14 at 10:45 pm to efrad
quote:
as the RFRA is a congress creating a law respecting the establishment of religion
well, no.
eta: if that's true, then the first amendment is a violation of itself.
This post was edited on 7/2/14 at 10:47 pm
Posted on 7/2/14 at 10:48 pm to McLemore
(no message)
This post was edited on 4/20/21 at 8:41 pm
Posted on 7/2/14 at 10:50 pm to efrad
quote:
I don't like Obamacare. I don't agree that employers should have to give their employees healthcare at all. It's silly to have to go through your fricking employer to get healthcare. It's an antiquated system that we should be far beyond at this point.
But where do we get this idea that employers don't have any obligations whatsoever to their employees
I'll take contradictory statements for a thousand, trebek.
Posted on 7/2/14 at 10:50 pm to efrad
quote:
But where do we get this idea that employers don't have any obligations whatsoever to their employees?
Perhaps you should be informed that Hobby Lobby provides 16 types of birth control for their employees and has provided these benefits prior to Obama care.
If the employee wants one of the types of BC that Hobby Lobby doesn't provide, they can avail themselves to the exchanges and buy their own policies.
It's simple as that.
Posted on 7/2/14 at 10:51 pm to McLemore
(no message)
This post was edited on 4/20/21 at 8:42 pm
Posted on 7/2/14 at 10:52 pm to ruzil
(no message)
This post was edited on 4/20/21 at 8:42 pm
Posted on 7/2/14 at 11:01 pm to Tiguar
quote:
No one is forced to work at Hobby Lobby.
For less than $14 an hour full time.
Posted on 7/2/14 at 11:02 pm to Sentrius
The ACLU has never suppprted an individual's right to own a firearm IIRC.
I have mixed feelings about the organization and their tepid support of the 2nd makes it very hard for me to support them at all.
I have mixed feelings about the organization and their tepid support of the 2nd makes it very hard for me to support them at all.
Posted on 7/2/14 at 11:02 pm to Sentrius
The fact that the argument is about what kind of healthcare companies "must" supply and not about the insanity of government forcing companies to be health insurance suppliers in the first place shows just how far off the tracks this nation is.
Posted on 7/2/14 at 11:02 pm to efrad
quote:
but this point is really irrelevant
No it's not
quote:
we could be talking about anything
We are talking about birth control, something that HL provided prior to Obama care
quote:
Exempting one company from the law based on their religious beliefs and not exempting all other companies.
Perhaps, these other companies you speak about should file their own lawsuit it they do not like the provisions of the law.
Posted on 7/2/14 at 11:03 pm to stuntman
quote:
The fact that the argument is about what kind of healthcare companies "must" supply and not about the insanity of government forcing companies to be health insurance suppliers in the first place shows just how far off the tracks this nation is.
Yes, this argument seems to be a red herring.
Posted on 7/2/14 at 11:04 pm to Tiguar
quote:
No one is forced to work at Hobby Lobby.
and no one who works at Hobby Lobby is being forced to abstain from the use of contraceptives...
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