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Interesting article re: human rights to water
Posted on 6/23/14 at 8:15 am
Posted on 6/23/14 at 8:15 am
I was scrolling through Al Jazeera and came upon this article commenting on the Detroit situation. Read and let me know what you think.
With water being an essential element to human survival, how do you address this issue? If water is free, who pays for the upkeep of infrastructure?
quote:
Detroit has too much of some things – stray dogs, abandoned houses – and not enough of others, such as residents who pay their water bills.
quote:So, the water company is going broke due to residents not paying their bills. Should this company have the right to shutoff the water going to these homes?
The latest sign of Detroit’s decline came from the city’s water department, when it said in March it would begin shutting off water for up to 3,000 homes and businesses a week in an attempt to stop the utility from sliding even further into debt.
quote:
The groups accuse DWSD of charging unaffordable rates to Detroit citizens, and placing the burden of the city's fleeing tax base on its poorest residents. They say DWSD is trying to rid itself of low-income customers in a bid to make the utility more attractive for a private takeover. DWSD denies the charge. But the city has acknowledged that at least a partial privatization of DWSD is being considered as Detroit attempts to shed some of its $18 billion in debt. DWSD accounts for $5 billion of that sum.
quote:
Nearly 50 percent of DWSD’s 323,000 accounts were behind on payments as of March, according to the Detroit Free Press. That’s left DWSD with $175 million in outstanding bills.
quote:LINK
“There are families that have gone months and months without water,” Mia Cupp, the director of development at nonprofit Wayne Metropolitan Community Action Agency, told the Free Press. “You can only imagine, how do go to the bathroom? How do you take showers? How do you clean yourself? .... You can’t conduct the normal daily things that you would do.”
With water being an essential element to human survival, how do you address this issue? If water is free, who pays for the upkeep of infrastructure?
This post was edited on 6/23/14 at 8:16 am
12
Posted on 6/23/14 at 8:22 am to Scruffy
They can always carry buckets from Lake Erie.
Posted on 6/23/14 at 8:23 am to TheFolker
quote:
They can always carry buckets from Lake Erie.
This
Posted on 6/23/14 at 8:26 am to TheFolker
quote:
They can always carry buckets from Lake Erie.
Boil away. Who said anything about free plumbing and pressurized treated water?
Posted on 6/23/14 at 8:30 am to Scruffy
Interesting.
Healthcare is a supposed "right" but water and food (absolutely required for survival) aren't.
Screwy, ain't it?
Healthcare is a supposed "right" but water and food (absolutely required for survival) aren't.
Screwy, ain't it?
Posted on 6/23/14 at 8:30 am to Scruffy
quote:
They can always carry buckets from Lake Erie.
Posted on 6/23/14 at 8:30 am to TrueTiger
quote:
Healthcare is a supposed "right" but water and food (absolutely required for survival) aren't.
yet
Posted on 6/23/14 at 8:40 am to Scruffy
Detroit is such a shithole.
Posted on 6/23/14 at 8:47 am to Scruffy
quote:
The groups accuse DWSD of charging unaffordable rates to Detroit citizens, and placing the burden of the city's fleeing tax base on its poorest residents.
There it is...
For every action, there is a reaction.
Maybe we can glean some lessons from Detroit?
Posted on 6/23/14 at 8:54 am to Scruffy
quote:No, the public water utility is not going broke. They are incurring debt which is different. ALL water utilities, private and public, incur debt. These word games are the things that private water companies and corrupt politicians play.
So, the water company is going broke due to residents not paying their bills.
This post was edited on 6/23/14 at 8:54 am
Posted on 6/23/14 at 9:02 am to mmcgrath
You are correct. They don't go "broke".
The question is, how much debt should they accrue before they can start cutting off water.
The question is, how much debt should they accrue before they can start cutting off water.
Posted on 6/23/14 at 9:49 am to Scruffy
quote:There is usually a system. Roughly about 30 - 60 days. My water utility will bill quarterly which is a pain to keep up with since there is not way to set up an auto debit or auto charge feature online, and I can't set up an auto payment from my checking account since the amount varies. They will send out a warning with a scheduled shut off date.
You are correct. They don't go "broke".
The question is, how much debt should they accrue before they can start cutting off water.
If 50% of the accounts are "technically" delinquent then there is something likely wrong or that recently changed with the billing system. Also, there is almost no way that a 50% delinquency for a single quarterly payment would add up to $175 million... that is more likely the total debt they are carrying in the system.
Also, when you shut off the water, you can charge the customer to turn it back on. As long as they are covering the costs associated there should be no worries for the rest of the customers. In fact it might bring their rates down a bit.
I know a lot about water utilities because I led an effort to stop a privatization sale here in NJ. The amount of misleading information that the water company and the city administration would throw out was staggering.
This post was edited on 6/23/14 at 9:51 am
Posted on 6/23/14 at 9:57 am to Scruffy
Dig wells?
Posted on 6/23/14 at 10:03 am to mmcgrath
quote:Do you consider the fact that people don't pay their bills a game? Or is that made-up too?
These word games are the things that private water companies and corrupt politicians play.
quote:It's not different when the city is broke - which detroit is broke.
They are incurring debt which is different.
When you can't pay your debts in the real world you go out of business - ie you lose money. that is not a "word game". What happens to the corrupt politicians when the city can't pay it's bills you ask?
Nothing! I like the real world better.
Posted on 6/23/14 at 10:12 am to Scruffy
quote:One update. It looks like $5 billion is the total debt. Also the $175 million sounds about right for 2 quarterlies as a) it includes water and sewer and b) they don't cut off water in the winter (and everyone knows this) it likely includes 2 - 3 quarters.
But the city has acknowledged that at least a partial privatization of DWSD is being considered as Detroit attempts to shed some of its $18 billion in debt. DWSD accounts for $5 billion of that sum
In any case it shouldn't be a big burden on other customers. Also, the fact that there is $5 billion in debt in the city run utility shouldn't affect the city AT ALL. The debt payments on that debt is paid off in the water rates plus a certain amount that gives the city a profit. The city utility likely also serves more than just the city residents. Ours in Trenton covers twice as many people in the suburbs than the 85K living in the city.
Posted on 6/23/14 at 10:13 am to LSUnKaty
quote:Water utilities generally provide a profit to the city that runs them... in NJ it is 5% of revenue.
It's not different when the city is broke - which detroit is broke
Posted on 6/23/14 at 2:25 pm to Scruffy
The other thread says the UN will come in for the rescue.
Problem solved.
Problem solved.
Posted on 6/23/14 at 3:29 pm to Scruffy
I wonder how many of the nearly 161,500 accounts who do not pay their water bill pay their cable bill?
Posted on 6/23/14 at 3:45 pm to Scruffy
quote:
Nearly 50 percent of DWSD’s 323,000 accounts were behind on payments as of March, according to the Detroit Free Press. That’s left DWSD with $175 million in outstanding bills.
Half of 323,000 is 161,500 accounts.
At 175 million dollars in outstanding bills, that's over $1000 per account in debt.
I dont know how much water folks up there use, but my water bill MAY reach $30, $35 in a bad month. These figures are suggesting that some of these accounts are pushing close to THREE YEARS past due? ($30 a monthish into $1000 is about 33 months of nonpayments) Or did I miss something here...
*edit* - Just reread the article and saw the paragraph about the above average water bill. $75 a month. In that case, these accounts are now on average 14 months behind. I'm sorry but if youre letting folks not pay water bills for over a year and not disconnecting it sooner than that, the fault here lies on the dumb arse water provider, not the citizen who's thinking "Hey..free water! They never shut me off yet, why pay?"
This post was edited on 6/23/14 at 3:52 pm
Posted on 6/23/14 at 4:04 pm to Scruffy
Water is not a right nor a necessity in Detroit. Fotey ounce is a right for the playa's soul.
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