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Why I do not believe that taxation is theft
Posted on 6/10/14 at 12:01 pm
Posted on 6/10/14 at 12:01 pm
As a conservative, I am distrustful and against excessive taxation, but I think calling it theft is wrong. For one thing, theft is illegal, government taking money from you so you don't freeload services is not illegal. Also, taxation is voluntary in the sense that it is based off of the social contract. We as a society created the state for protection and to protect our rights. That protection comes with a fee.
Don't get me wrong, taxes distort the market, decrease economic incentive, and unfairly transfer wealth. But to call it theft is to disrespect the social contract.
Don't get me wrong, taxes distort the market, decrease economic incentive, and unfairly transfer wealth. But to call it theft is to disrespect the social contract.
18
Posted on 6/10/14 at 12:03 pm to HailHailtoMichigan!
quote:
But to call it theft is to disrespect the social contract.
Break a contract and you get sued.
Don't pay taxes and you go to jail and/or the government sends the military to apprehend you.
Not the same. Taxes = theft
Posted on 6/10/14 at 12:07 pm to theunknownknight
Taxes are capitalist. Adam Smith even believed that the government has a role in keeping infrastructure (such as roads, judicial system, etc.) and he believed that the government had to pay for this through taxes.
Granted not at as high of levels as today but you have to have some taxes so the government can properly (not through intervention) allow the economy to thrive.
Granted not at as high of levels as today but you have to have some taxes so the government can properly (not through intervention) allow the economy to thrive.
Posted on 6/10/14 at 12:08 pm to HailHailtoMichigan!
quote:
against excessive taxation
Oooh, we have someone who does not understand the concept of 'bright line'. Ooooh.
quote:
For one thing, theft is illegal,
So, if burglary was made legal then it would not be theft anymore?
quote:
taxation is voluntary in the sense that it is based off of the social contract. We as a society created the state for protection and to protect our rights. That protection comes with a fee.
No, it is not voluntary. I never voted for the income tax to exist. So, I have no social contract. We created the state but the state takes on a life of it's own. It eats, it consumes, it grows and it destroys like a Titan. By your standards the USSR model would be fine. They determine where you work, how much you are paid ...all in return for the state's protection.
Posted on 6/10/14 at 12:08 pm to HailHailtoMichigan!
quote:Whether I agree with you or not aside, that is a terrible way to put it considering that the one determining whether something is illegal or not is the government. Of course it wouldn't be illegal.
government taking money from you so you don't freeload services is not illegal.
Also, they take it by force,an action which is illegal in all other situations involving all other parties.
quote:Another false description considering that the contract was not voluntary. I was forced into it at birth. I had no say.
taxation is voluntary in the sense that it is based off of the social contract. We as a society created the state for protection and to protect our rights. That protection comes with a fee.
quote:To call it a social contract is an insult to contracts in general.
But to call it theft is to disrespect the social contract.
A contract involves terms agreed upon by both parties. I was never asked my opinion, nor did I sign or agree to any contract.
A situation built upon force perpetrated by one side is not a contract.
This post was edited on 6/10/14 at 12:10 pm
Posted on 6/10/14 at 12:08 pm to HailHailtoMichigan!
Protection and running necessary functions is one thing. Taking from some to give to others is something else.
This post was edited on 6/10/14 at 12:10 pm
Posted on 6/10/14 at 12:09 pm to petar
quote:
Adam Smith even believed that the government has a role in keeping infrastructure (such as roads, judicial system, etc.) and he believed that the government had to pay for this through taxes.
Adam Smith would vomit when looking at the US today.
Posted on 6/10/14 at 12:10 pm to HailHailtoMichigan!
quote:
Don't get me wrong, taxes distort the market, decrease economic incentive, and unfairly transfer wealth. But to call it theft is to disrespect the social contract.
Depends on what it's being used for.
National defense, building infrastructure to facilitate commerce, and things like that. A-OK to me.
The shite we use taxpayer money for these days?...we're getting farther from the agreement outlined in the social contract and moving closer towards theft.
Posted on 6/10/14 at 12:10 pm to Zach
quote:
Adam Smith would vomit when looking at the US today.
As would a lot of others.
Posted on 6/10/14 at 12:14 pm to Zach
quote:
Adam Smith would vomit when looking at the US today.
Not disagreeing with this by any means. however, all taxation (the needed, lowest amount of taxation) i don't think is theft. or maybe to put it more correctly, it is recognized by capitalism as a needed theft. or a societal cost to keep basic order
Posted on 6/10/14 at 12:16 pm to petar
I don't think conservatives have a problem with taxation. They have a problem with redistribution.
Posted on 6/10/14 at 12:20 pm to HailHailtoMichigan!
quote:
Why I do not believe that taxation is legalized theft
Would have been more apt as its a contradiction in terms which sums up govt bureaucracy IMO.
Posted on 6/10/14 at 12:24 pm to HailHailtoMichigan!
If one supports government in any significant form, for protection or otherwise, they must necessarily support taxation to fund it, and that citizens will collectively determine those costs. Unless one is a legit anarchist, entirely against government's existence, taxation is not theft.
Posted on 6/10/14 at 12:30 pm to PrimeTime Money
quote:
Protection and running necessary functions is one thing. Taking from some to give to others is something else.
Posted on 6/10/14 at 12:35 pm to HailHailtoMichigan!
He isn't talking about a business contract rather a social contract. Don't remember the philosopher but it pretty much is people come together and decide to make laws and guidelines the way people live together and have a government. You as a citizen agree to live under these guidelines and laws. Because you agree to the social contract taxation isn't theft.
I'm not saying I agree but I'm trying to get it all straight.
I'm not saying I agree but I'm trying to get it all straight.
Posted on 6/10/14 at 12:36 pm to HailHailtoMichigan!
Contracts involve consent.
The people who consented to the current tax system are all dead.
I don't know what you call taking without consent where you come from, but we call it theft where I come from.
The people who consented to the current tax system are all dead.
I don't know what you call taking without consent where you come from, but we call it theft where I come from.
Posted on 6/10/14 at 12:43 pm to HailHailtoMichigan!
Taxes are a fact of life. We all bitch about them, sometimes they reach unreasonable levels, but it's really nothing to stay butthurt over. Most countries with decent infrastructure, well-equipped and well-payed military forces, and reliable basic services have effective rates much higher than ours.
Posted on 6/10/14 at 12:44 pm to HailHailtoMichigan!
quote:
theft is illegal
who sets this standard? the same people that take your money "legally"?
quote:
disrespect the social contract
if it were not done to extremes to feed pet groups, and obviously the IRS has some major distinctions on groups of people as does the daddy O stash, you would be correct. Sorry that you're incorrect, a government with a conscience in the art of taking and giving would be welcomed
This post was edited on 6/10/14 at 12:46 pm
Posted on 6/10/14 at 12:45 pm to Navytiger74
quote:
Taxes are a fact of life
Posted on 6/10/14 at 12:47 pm to TrueTiger
quote:
Contracts involve consent.
consent can be implied... you know by not renouncing your american citizenship.
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