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Started By
Message
I don't understand transgenderism, why did LGB attach themselves to T?
Posted on 5/30/14 at 2:40 pm
Posted on 5/30/14 at 2:40 pm
Spin off of the other thread:
I really just don't understand it. Superficially, it appears like a mental disorder. You believe you are something you are not; you think you are someone trapped in someone else's body.
If someone comes up and says "I am Jesus" and starts hammering nails into their wrists, we shoot them up with Haldol and Ativan until theyre numb for a few weeks. But, if someone says "I am a woman" when they're a man, we hand them a knife to cut off their appendages (figuratively speaking, of course).
Why is this? I mulled it over and believe the primary reason is the gay movement allowed the transgenders' to be attached to their own. Believing transgenders are mentally ill in the simplest sense is considered bigoted, same as thinking being gay is a mental illness. However, this is a two-way street- since transgenders benefit from the social defense of homosexuals, homosexuals sometimes suffer the stigmas against transgenders. They tend to be painted with the same brush.
Had the LGB's not been LGBT, I think you may have seen more people open to accepting homosexuality outright. People allowing boys to piss in the girls bathroom in elementary school and accommodate the gender whims of a 5 year old cause people pause, and thus possibly recoil at the entire LGBT movement.
I really just don't understand it. Superficially, it appears like a mental disorder. You believe you are something you are not; you think you are someone trapped in someone else's body.
If someone comes up and says "I am Jesus" and starts hammering nails into their wrists, we shoot them up with Haldol and Ativan until theyre numb for a few weeks. But, if someone says "I am a woman" when they're a man, we hand them a knife to cut off their appendages (figuratively speaking, of course).
Why is this? I mulled it over and believe the primary reason is the gay movement allowed the transgenders' to be attached to their own. Believing transgenders are mentally ill in the simplest sense is considered bigoted, same as thinking being gay is a mental illness. However, this is a two-way street- since transgenders benefit from the social defense of homosexuals, homosexuals sometimes suffer the stigmas against transgenders. They tend to be painted with the same brush.
Had the LGB's not been LGBT, I think you may have seen more people open to accepting homosexuality outright. People allowing boys to piss in the girls bathroom in elementary school and accommodate the gender whims of a 5 year old cause people pause, and thus possibly recoil at the entire LGBT movement.
This post was edited on 5/30/14 at 2:42 pm
15
Posted on 5/30/14 at 2:42 pm to Tiguar
Because they are all "misunderstood".
Posted on 5/30/14 at 2:43 pm to Tiguar
They want to have it both ways?
Posted on 5/30/14 at 2:45 pm to Tiguar
I've wondered the same thing.
I even asked Toddy once when he started one of his RARE stings on some issue involving homos.
He didn't answer.
It might have something to do with the fact that if they can brainwash the sheeple into believing that these transgender freaks are anything close to being "normal," then those sheeple will look at the homos as being perfectly acceptable and normal.
Hell, if they can brainwash people into thinking that these transgender freaks are normal, think how easy it will be to criminalize anyone who dares questions the "normalcy" of homosexuality or doesn't accept their lifestyles as being perfectly "normal".
I even asked Toddy once when he started one of his RARE stings on some issue involving homos.
He didn't answer.
It might have something to do with the fact that if they can brainwash the sheeple into believing that these transgender freaks are anything close to being "normal," then those sheeple will look at the homos as being perfectly acceptable and normal.
Hell, if they can brainwash people into thinking that these transgender freaks are normal, think how easy it will be to criminalize anyone who dares questions the "normalcy" of homosexuality or doesn't accept their lifestyles as being perfectly "normal".
This post was edited on 5/30/14 at 2:52 pm
Posted on 5/30/14 at 2:46 pm to Tiguar
Transgender community large enough to warrant it
Remember the goal of the LGBT movement isn't equality or acceptance, but its about being a victim class and therefore getting preferential treatment. NOT equal treatment
Remember the goal of the LGBT movement isn't equality or acceptance, but its about being a victim class and therefore getting preferential treatment. NOT equal treatment
Posted on 5/30/14 at 2:50 pm to Tiguar
Ive got a semi-friend that I went to High School with that has now changed to a woman.. I dont ever recall him being feminine or showing signs of wanting to be a woman.. He of course could have been hiding this behavior. Now this is a smart guy/woman who didnt appear to have troubles around him/her growing up..
Now the somewhat odd thing to me is that he is into women.. Now that hes changed to a she, shes still into women and is essentially a lesbian..a double whammy I suppose.
The whole thing is odd to me but in the end.. She seems happier and is a productive member of society.
Now the somewhat odd thing to me is that he is into women.. Now that hes changed to a she, shes still into women and is essentially a lesbian..a double whammy I suppose.
The whole thing is odd to me but in the end.. She seems happier and is a productive member of society.
Posted on 5/30/14 at 2:56 pm to Tiguar
Look, I think people ought to be able to do what makes them happiest as long as they are harming no one else, and if someone wants to have this elective surgery, they ought to be able to do so.
But the one thing that has kind of puzzled me from transgendered individuals associating with the LGB movement is that, where sexuality is concerned, the argument seems to be that this occurs in nature and is therefore "legitimate" (again, I think consenting adults ought to be allowed to have sex with whomever they please, regardless of whether it occurs in "nature" or not). But the very idea of changing your sex IS, on SOME LEVEL, unnatural. I'm not passing a value judgment there and saying whether changing it is good or bad, but it IS unnatural.
Now, when people make arguments about gender stereotypes being harmful, like that little boys should feel free to play with dolls and little girls to play with monster trucks, that's a separate issue from surgically changing your sex.
I guess I would be curious: if you could have a procedure, or surgery done to change your sexuality, how would the LGB community react? Would they be as supportive of those who want to change their sexuality as those who want to change their sex?
But the one thing that has kind of puzzled me from transgendered individuals associating with the LGB movement is that, where sexuality is concerned, the argument seems to be that this occurs in nature and is therefore "legitimate" (again, I think consenting adults ought to be allowed to have sex with whomever they please, regardless of whether it occurs in "nature" or not). But the very idea of changing your sex IS, on SOME LEVEL, unnatural. I'm not passing a value judgment there and saying whether changing it is good or bad, but it IS unnatural.
Now, when people make arguments about gender stereotypes being harmful, like that little boys should feel free to play with dolls and little girls to play with monster trucks, that's a separate issue from surgically changing your sex.
I guess I would be curious: if you could have a procedure, or surgery done to change your sexuality, how would the LGB community react? Would they be as supportive of those who want to change their sexuality as those who want to change their sex?
Posted on 5/30/14 at 2:57 pm to TROLA
I suppose my question/point is this: at what point do we, as a society, draw a line at what we will accommodate? Should we?
Sexual/gender identity appears to be completely off limits. That is all well and good, but Henry wishes to be called Jose and wants insurance to pay for surgery because he believe he was born Mexican.
ULL wants people to call them Louisiana- where does the madness end?
I agree. This is a separate issue.
Sexual/gender identity appears to be completely off limits. That is all well and good, but Henry wishes to be called Jose and wants insurance to pay for surgery because he believe he was born Mexican.
ULL wants people to call them Louisiana- where does the madness end?
quote:
Now, when people make arguments about gender stereotypes being harmful, like that little boys should feel free to play with dolls and little girls to play with monster trucks, that's a separate issue from surgically changing your sex.
I agree. This is a separate issue.
This post was edited on 5/30/14 at 2:59 pm
Posted on 5/30/14 at 2:57 pm to TROLA
quote:
Now the somewhat odd thing to me is that he is into women.. Now that hes changed to a she, shes still into women and is essentially a lesbian..a double whammy I suppose.
Pretty much all TGs are straight
A guy who was in some of my classes in college liked to wear women's underwear(bras and panties) and was straight and is now married with a kid
He wasn't a full TG though he just wore the underwear under normal mens clothes which was weird but whatever floats his boat I guess
Posted on 5/30/14 at 2:58 pm to Tiguar
quote:I don't think the question is that simple.
I suppose my question/point is this: at what point do we, as a society, draw a line at what we will accommodate?
I mean hell, I'll "accommodate" transgender if by that you mean, I don't give a crap what they do.
But, it's just another mental illness. An illness that doesn't actually affect me, but an illness just the same. Pretending they aren't mentally ill is the stupidity I can't stand.
Posted on 5/30/14 at 2:59 pm to ShortyRob
That's a fair point, "accommodate" needs to be defined.
Posted on 5/30/14 at 3:05 pm to Tiguar
My gf is friends with a bunch of lesbians and one odd case in particular is as follows.
2 girls were dating. One girl started becoming increasingly more manly. It started just with a short haircut and wearing men's clothes. It then escalated into her changing her name to a boys name and taking testosterone shots. Alas she had breast reduction surgery and is now full on man, walking around shirtless in public and whatnot.
My question is, are they now considered straight? If indeed she has her wish and is now considered a man, she shouldn't be considered gay anymore, and her girlfriend shouldn't either.
Nobody seems to be able to answer that one.
2 girls were dating. One girl started becoming increasingly more manly. It started just with a short haircut and wearing men's clothes. It then escalated into her changing her name to a boys name and taking testosterone shots. Alas she had breast reduction surgery and is now full on man, walking around shirtless in public and whatnot.
My question is, are they now considered straight? If indeed she has her wish and is now considered a man, she shouldn't be considered gay anymore, and her girlfriend shouldn't either.
Nobody seems to be able to answer that one.
This post was edited on 5/30/14 at 3:20 pm
Posted on 5/30/14 at 3:12 pm to rintintin
quote:
Nobody seems to be able to answer that one.
Its a paradox for sure
My question is if gays are attracted to other men, why do they act and become more feminine? If its men they are attracted to why are they attracted the girly ones and not the manly ones?
Same with lesbians. Why do lesbians try to become like men? If they really are attracted to women you think they would go for the girly girls and feminine ones, not the dykes that look like dudes.
Posted on 5/30/14 at 3:31 pm to goldennugget
quote:Because they are mentally ill and those with mental illness often don't make a lot of sense.
My question is if gays are attracted to other men, why do they act and become more feminine? If its men they are attracted to why are they attracted the girly ones and not the manly ones?
Same with lesbians. Why do lesbians try to become like men? If they really are attracted to women you think they would go for the girly girls and feminine ones, not the dykes that look like dudes.
That the APA was basically bludgeoned into retracting that status is the absurdity.
And, for those saying, "but they were born that way.
Well, a LOT of predisposition to mental illness is hereditary. That doesn't negate the illness part.
Posted on 5/30/14 at 3:39 pm to Tiguar
quote:
I really just don't understand it. Superficially, it appears like a mental disorder. You believe you are something you are not; you think you are someone trapped in someone else's body.
If someone comes up and says "I am Jesus" and starts hammering nails into their wrists, we shoot them up with Haldol and Ativan until theyre numb for a few weeks. But, if someone says "I am a woman" when they're a man, we hand them a knife to cut off their appendages (figuratively speaking, of course).
Why is this? I mulled it over and believe the primary reason is the gay movement allowed the transgenders' to be attached to their own. Believing transgenders are mentally ill in the simplest sense is considered bigoted, same as thinking being gay is a mental illness. However, this is a two-way street- since transgenders benefit from the social defense of homosexuals, homosexuals sometimes suffer the stigmas against transgenders. They tend to be painted with the same brush.
Had the LGB's not been LGBT, I think you may have seen more people open to accepting homosexuality outright. People allowing boys to piss in the girls bathroom in elementary school and accommodate the gender whims of a 5 year old cause people pause, and thus possibly recoil at the entire LGBT movement.
well one has to do with sexual orientation (LGB) and the other gender identity (T) but these have been conflated since the early days of academic research on sex. in the nineteenth century "homosexual" men, for example, were imagined to be women trapped in mens' bodies.
another reason the two are probably conflated is that both LGB and T fall outside of heteronormativty and for political purposes are thus natural bedfellows (pun intended, ZING!!!).
i guess transgenderism is still regarded by the DSM as a mental disorder but so was "homosexuality" until the 1970s. i know very few transgender people, but the ones i do know aren't delusional about their biological sex at birth...only that they don't identify with it.
Posted on 5/30/14 at 3:46 pm to Bunsbert Montcroff
quote:If they believed they were dogs and crawled on all fours and barked, everyone would call them what they are. Mentally ill. There's no "appears" to it. They are mentally ill.
I really just don't understand it. Superficially, it appears like a mental disorder. You believe you are something you are not; you think you are someone trapped in someone else's body.
quote:And the reason it was removed in the 70s had jack shite to do with psychology.
i guess transgenderism is still regarded by the DSM as a mental disorder but so was "homosexuality" until the 1970s
Posted on 5/30/14 at 3:49 pm to ShortyRob
quote:
That the APA was basically bludgeoned into retracting that status is the absurdity.
And, for those saying, "but they were born that way.
Well, a LOT of predisposition to mental illness is hereditary. That doesn't negate the illness part.
your last point is a good one, but it's also important to remember that medical diagnoses, even those based in genetics and biology, and socially, culturally, and historically relative.
in other words, how some genetic difference manifests itself with be interpreted differently in different societies, cultures, and times.
Posted on 5/30/14 at 3:52 pm to Bunsbert Montcroff
quote:
in other words, how some genetic difference manifests itself with be interpreted differently in different societies, cultures, and times.
What are some of the different ways transgenerdism has been interpreted across various societies, cultures, and times?
Posted on 5/30/14 at 3:52 pm to Bunsbert Montcroff
Well, that is the point of this thread in a sense. Discuss the implications and reasonings for something that seems like a mental illness not socially considered a mental illness.
Sickle Cell disease used to be viewed as some kind of gift in Africa as it protects from Malaria.
Sickle Cell disease used to be viewed as some kind of gift in Africa as it protects from Malaria.
Posted on 5/30/14 at 3:59 pm to ShortyRob
you missed the relevant part of my response, which speaks directly to your claim:
in other words, my friend who was born female and lives as a man (but has not had sexual reassignment surgery) doesn't believe that she is a biological male with a penis.
its inclusion was based on prejudice and misunderstanding, so what. like i said, medical diagnoses are socially, culturally, and historically mediated.
quote:
i know very few transgender people, but the ones i do know aren't delusional about their biological sex at birth...only that they don't identify with it.
in other words, my friend who was born female and lives as a man (but has not had sexual reassignment surgery) doesn't believe that she is a biological male with a penis.
quote:
And the reason it was removed in the 70s had jack shite to do with psychology.
its inclusion was based on prejudice and misunderstanding, so what. like i said, medical diagnoses are socially, culturally, and historically mediated.
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