re: *OFFICIAL* Fringe M/TV Board rewatch thread (current episodes discussion p. 60)

Because you will be gone than, how about we start season 4 next week and do it for two week and continue when you get back?

Either way is fine by me but.....YOU would have to post your results before you leave. If you don't then you are really talking about taking 2 weeks off.

Motherfricker. Wikipedia no longer has little synopses of the episodes on the episode pages. Guess I'll have to use Fringepedia from now on.

OP is updated with the first three S4 episodes for this week. Discussion to start next Monday, the 10th.

Preciate the flexibility for my vacation, brosephs.

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This reminds me so much of the damn rape stones from SGU. You know Bell went out and had some serious Lesbo action using Olive. Especially since she had no memory of his actions.

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I mean, honestly, I can't blame him.

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Can't be said enough even though CT thinks we are going over the top.

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CT said YOU were over the top. Not me.

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This is just like hoping between worlds. It appears anyone can do it and a host of people can activate the machine.

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But at least with hopping between universes, it was somewhat explained (even if poorly at times). With Olivia and the machine, all they did was find some "ancient" scroll with her picture on it (which I had completely forgotten about from the first time I watched it).

Also, I did always love how the rooms were basically set up to be combined. Why the frick would Walter and company be set up all along the right hand side of the room and not in the middle? Same with Walternate and the left hand side. It would have been hilarious if two tables were set up in the same spot and they just exploded or tumbled over when both universes collided in that room.

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There really is no valid explanation for Walternate being there. If Peter ended the Walternate Universe there isn't any way Walter could be there.

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Exactly. He was in his universe trying to kill this one. No way he'd a) know that his was ended until it happened, or b) have enough time to peace out.

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As I said, naive of Peter to think a "Sorry I Killed 6 Billion People" would settle things with Walternate.

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Right, but Peter still knew Walternate's plan, but instead of saying something to someone, he decided to go have a talk with him and try to work shite out? I'm sorry, but if my own mother or father was trying to literally end everything I've ever known and basically life as we know it, I wouldn't hesitate to pull that trigger.

Neither Here Nor There.

Two Livs in one room. Yummy.

Quick flashes of Peter. Okay..

So the Observers are course correctors, so to speak, but what are they correcting things to? Fate? Something previously set in motion? If so, set in motion by whom? Are the Observers not the First Men? Sort of confused on that.

More shapeshifters. Yay. I dig them as the villain of the show.

What episode in S1 was it that had the see-through bodies? Wonder if this is connected?

"I'm gonna need to check her anus."

Is it me, or does Liv look more tan this season? She's looking better than usual IMO.

Hey, Liv..just because Lincoln is smart and sort of helped you out doesn't mean you can start telling him classified shite. Slow down, girl.

Random gripe: The way those bodies were stacked in that room was bothering me way too much. They were in like an L shape instead of just filling the room from one side to the other. I'm not terribly OCD, but that annoyed the shite out of me.

The whole "Peter being gone" thing is weird. So they are obviously aware of the goings-on of the other universe. And that exists. How did Walter get to stay out of the nuthouse since adult Peter (as his son/family) wasn't there to release him to (for good)?

Do they remember the shapeshifters from before? I assume everything that happened before still happened, but how does Peter's absence affect that? Do people that Peter killed, arrested, captured, etc. remember him? Surely they would, right? They still have the machine in the room where the portal is...do they know what the frick it's for now? Because before, only Peter could operate it or get it to do anything really.

WHERE THE frick IS PETER AND FAUXLIV'S BABY?

With the amount of power and control over the universe the Observers have, it's sort of weird that September has to seek out old random junk and build some low-budget "forgetting device" thing from junk arse parts.


One Night in October.

Astrid is subconsciously trying to frick over Peter by hooking Liv up with Link. Cut that shite out, Ostrich.

"I lived in your apartment and picked up a lot of things about you." Hahaa. I love the two Livs going back and forth and talking shite at/to each other.

99 cent gas? When can I move to the altverse?

I remember this episode from before. Okay, this is where I think I got confused on Broyles. So AltBroyles is still alive? How? This is pissing me off...I don't get the whole "Peter is gone" thing at all, but you can't just randomly change things like this. We all know AltBroyles got charred the frick up when they snatched Fauxliv back to the altverse. So what the frick is he doing alive now? That seems like something that should not have "reset" by the Peter thing.

Monster of the week, meh..but solid episode, and a cool ending with the professor in the hospital with no memory of Margery and thus he may not be able to keep his homicidal tendencies at bay anymore. I liked that.


Alone in the World.

I know Liv and company are the first Fringe people on cases usually, but there are cops everywhere...is Licoln really the first person to notice three sets of footprints and that there could be another person involved?

Why doesn't Walter just explain to everyone what he's going through. If you explain that you're seeing and hearing things (especially specific voices), people might be willing to help. It's not like you're just insane...you work for the FBI now and have people there who care and want to help.

I assume this episode drove Myth insane...

..So wait a sec. You know this mold shite explodes and huts/kills people quickly and easily, yet you're all up close and personal with it in the tunnel? I mean, your faces are literally inches from this shite, and it just exploded and killed people at the morgue.

Okay, so we now know that Peter drowned when Walter tried to take him from the other universe. So as of right now, September didn't save him/them from the lake. So it's not that he never existed...it's just that he died as a boy so adult Peter doesn't exist.

Um, Liv...Broyles didn't "give Walter two hours." He straight up said "two hours or if there is another event." Stop acting like this kid's life is more important than hundreds or more in the city that this mold shite is about to prey on. It's time to off this murderous child.

So the mold shite is attacking Link and not only is Liv now worried about it attacking her (and she's inches from it again), but she also doesn't seem to be worried about him at all.

So in the end, all Walter had to do was talk to this kid and tell him to "let go" of the plant shite? BOOOOOO. Felt kinda weak.

See, Walter? Had you just told Olivia about the voices and apparitions you've been seeing, she'd have understood and you wouldn't have been driving yourself crazy for this long.







All in all, solid episodes. And I don't hate the "no Peter" thing too much. I just wish it made more sense. Like the several paragraphs I talked about it above...some things don't match up for me, like the baby, AltBroyles, etc.

Myth, I really want to start adding pics/gifs to my reviews, but I don't want to be jocking your style. Just FYI.


Also, I think I am gonna start linking the Fringepedia episode links in the OP for the assignments. It's pretty fantastic. Check out the page for the last episode from this week, Alone in the World. It goes in to EXCRUTIATING detail about the episode and breaks down basically every single thing that happens in each act (between commercial breaks, basically). But it's a good source for people to maybe read up about the episode and jog their memory if they don't have time to watch it. It could bring more people in for discussion potentially.

Anyway, I think I will put a blurb in the OP about this, and link the episode pages for those interested.

Also, OP is updated for new episodes (and dates) for this week.

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Are the Observers not the First Men?

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I don't think so. The machine was sent back in time by Walter. I assume that means he wrote the book and scrolls and everything that has to do with the machine.

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"I'm gonna need to check her anus."

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I was going to say, Astrid no longer wants to go out into the field, but she would have had to do that back at the lab. Either way she was on anus duty.

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Hey, Liv..just because Lincoln is smart and sort of helped you out doesn't mean you can start telling him classified shite. Slow down, girl.

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His efforts were minimal and forced. He went from being allowed to learn about something because his partner died, to being a team member, for no real reason.

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The whole "Peter being gone" thing is weird. So they are obviously aware of the goings-on of the other universe. And that exists. How did Walter get to stay out of the nuthouse since adult Peter (as his son/family) wasn't there to release him to (for good)?

Do they remember the shapeshifters from before? I assume everything that happened before still happened, but how does Peter's absence affect that? Do people that Peter killed, arrested, captured, etc. remember him? Surely they would, right? They still have the machine in the room where the portal is...do they know what the frick it's for now? Because before, only Peter could operate it or get it to do anything really.

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I need to check, but I thought the Observers said, it was like Peter never existed at the end of Season 3.

Seems like the writers decided to change that for Season 4 and none of it makes much sense. When and where did Peter cease to exist? Is the Walternate universe pissed because Walter did go over there and grab Peter but using the machine Peter blocked September from saving him? All very sketchy and I am not sure what is really going on and not sure it gets answered.

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WHERE THE frick IS PETER AND FAUXLIV'S BABY?

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Gone. She didn't sleep with Peter because he either doesn't exist or he died coming back from the Walternate universe.

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I love the two Livs going back and forth and talking shite at/to each other.

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I remember this episode from before. Okay, this is where I think I got confused on Broyles. So AltBroyles is still alive? How? This is pissing me off...I don't get the whole "Peter is gone" thing at all, but you can't just randomly change things like this. We all know AltBroyles got charred the frick up when they snatched Fauxliv back to the altverse. So what the frick is he doing alive now? That seems like something that should not have "reset" by the Peter thing.

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Actually, with Peter gone, then Olive had nothing to hold onto so would she have even escaped? Shouldn't she be dead? Shouldn't her brain be a jar? I thought Peter was the only thing that kept her struggling to get away.

Too many nitpicking conflicts to list with the MACHINE CHANGE. Plus since we don't know where Peter ceased to exist, it is hard to determine all the changes to the timeline.

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I assume this episode drove Myth insane

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Mainly the same old lack of Hazmats or safety protocol for a toxic bug.

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Stop acting like this kid's life is more important than hundreds or more in the city that this mold shite is about to prey on. It's time to off this murderous child.

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That annoyed me but it annoyed me even more on Doctor Who a few weeks back where they had to decide to kill a moon sized alien or let all of the Earth die.

Sure....that is really a hard decision to make. They decided to let the creature live which was total BS. Then there was a nice Rainbow Happy BS ending, blah blah blah.

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Mysterious infection /infestations kills a guy, so once again, lets all wander around the infected zone with no protection.

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It's literally the first thing I thought when watching it, and then immediately thought about you getting pissed while watching it.

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Quick question, If Peter is dead and didn't exist then what caused the events to start happening and why do the people in the Walternate Universe still blame the Prime Universe for their problems.

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See, this is sort of my line of thinking on all of that. But I will get into that once I read your responses to my comments.

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Astrid is going to be so pissed when Peter comes back. With him gone, she actually gets to leave Harvard.

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I remember thinking that they must've made a distinct effort to get her more involved in the show since they now have her at crime scenes with Walter in her ear. It's like Jasika Nicole bitched about it and slept with a producer or something..

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So Lincoln points out a chick sitting on a bench next to the crime scene and now he is part of the team? Crime scene 101.

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Yes. THANK YOU.

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Unimpressed with the Merged worlds Amber opening. Should have jazzed it up a bit more.

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I walked in late on that. Had gone to the kitchen and came back to see the tail end of the amber colored opening. I thought about rewinding it and seeing what I missed, but decided not to since I mainly skip the credits most of the time anyway.

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Fauxlivia sure likes poking Olive with a stick. Catfight???

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They hate each other, and it's awesome. I don't remember there being a half naked, bra and panties brawl between those two, but I am just hoping that it exists and I forgot about it.

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Walter jamming out doing his best impersonation of the old memorex commercial.

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First thing I thought of was Jesse in BB:

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Are the world still colliding. Peter said that neither world could survive without the other and they needed to work together to heal the breach.

Are Amber events still happening? If Peter was removed from the timeline, how do they know to stop fighting each other since it was Peter who told them the stop fighting.

What happened to the old machine scrolls? Do they still show Peter but nobody knows who that is?

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See, now we are getting this discussion somewhere. Again, I will address this soon when I respond (to your responses), but not much of it makes sense to me unless I am just missing something obvious.

Where is Fear and company when you need them?

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How hard is it to just show some guys unzipping a hazmat suit and Broyles stating no contagion found at the scene.

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Great. They get into the suits just to get right back out of them for no discernible reason. Fine, you know how to kill the fungus but you don't know when it will explode again or how it moves around.

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The monster of the week stories weren't great. Weren't horrible but they weren't great, but I did like the arc moving forward and I am glad they didn't drag out Walter being crazy.

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Agree with all of that. Some nice advancement, and some of my original questions in episode 1 were answered in the other episodes. But still, the whole Peter thing is bothering me a lot.

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I don't think so. The machine was sent back in time by Walter. I assume that means he wrote the book and scrolls and everything that has to do with the machine.

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With Walter's old janky typewriter from a couple season back?

So do the First men not exist at all? I thought it was the O's.

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His efforts were minimal and forced. He went from being allowed to learn about something because his partner died, to being a team member, for no real reason.

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They brought him to the scene and he was like "One of these things is not like the other" and pointed at that quiet girl, and then Liv is all "This isn't the first time this has happened.." That is not only classified shite, but super, uber, uppity classified shite. At least the next scene had a throwaway line about Lincoln's clearance getting upped, but still.

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I need to check, but I thought the Observers said, it was like Peter never existed at the end of Season 3.

Seems like the writers decided to change that for Season 4 and none of it makes much sense. When and where did Peter cease to exist? Is the Walternate universe pissed because Walter did go over there and grab Peter but using the machine Peter blocked September from saving him? All very sketchy and I am not sure what is really going on and not sure it gets answered.

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That's the basic gist of what September said IIRC. From the Fringepedia page on that episode (I've bolded the important parts):

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Secretary Bishop, Bolivia Dunham and Brandon Fayette are all among the science team from the alternate universe that now appear to be standing in the Liberty Island facility in this universe. Everyone takes a few seconds to study one another with silent concern. Olivia turns back to Peter and the restraining grips holding Peter release him. Both Walter's make a beeline toward each other. Bolivia eyeballs Olivia. Peter grins at his discovery and joins his dad and his father who are preparing to face-off in the middle of the lab. Peter is confident he now understands what it is the machine does, what it is capable of and where it came from. Walter confirms Peter's claim - The First People? Yes, but the First People are us... certainly Walter, and probably Astrid and Ella as well. Peter takes the time to address both of the elder Bishop men with equal respect. He has seen Doomsday, and it is worse than anything imaginable. A war between universes can not be won. If one side dies, both sides die. To settle the conflict, Peter has torn a hole in each universe that leads only to the room they are now standing in - a bridge where both sides can work to fix -- Peter vanishes into thin air just a few feet away from the two men who are behind the physical collapse of two universes. Without any notice or mention of what just happened, both Bishops turn to begin the conversation they have both wanted for decades. Secretary Bishop chastises Walter for shattering his universe and the genocidal amount of death he is responsible for. Walter defends the accident that caused all this, but what Secretary Bishop is doing is deliberate! Olivia takes the high ground - maybe it's time to start fixing what is broken.
Outside of the laboratory on Liberty Island in this universe, almost a dozen Observers have gathered on the grounds after dark and study the monument. December senses what has happened inside and detects the thoughts of those that were there when Peter vanished... they do not remember Peter. It seems The Observer was correct. How could Peter be remembered if he never existed? Peter served his purpose.

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Also, from the "Plot Relevant Questions" on that page:

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2011
Did Peter vanish from all timelines? If not, was he simply erased from the current timeline?
If not, did he return to the 2026 timeframe?
If not, did he travel to a separate future timeline?
If not, did he travel to a past timeline?

Was "the purpose" Peter served to bring both universes to a common ground so they could begin repairing the damages each were suffering? If not, what was "the purpose" discussed by the Observers, that Peter served before he "never existed"?

What does December mean by "not remembering" Peter? Does this refer to all of Peter's history, or only after his last interaction with Walter?

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All great questions, and basically what I was thinking while watching.

So after these three episodes, we now know that original Peter died, and then Walter went into the altverse to get Peter, but when he came back he drowned in the lake. So basically, September failed to save Peter from the lake as previously told in the show (I believe). So that is where Peter (both of them) stopped "existing."

But if that's true, then why are the universes fighting? If that was the only incident, then Walternate would never have known that it was Walter from this universe that came and took his son (or that multiple universes were actually real anyway). And if Peter never existed as an adult, then the Fringe team never goes into the altverse to bring him back, the two Livs don't know or hate each other, etc...which is why I assume AltBroyles is still alive. But if that was erased, then was Fauxlivia never brought to this universe I guess? Which is all the more reason, again, that they didn't know each other. And Fauxliv specifically said that she was over here and learned things about Liv from her apartment. So that means that Liv was a prisoner on Liberty Island in the altverse...but like you said, it was Peter that got her through that. So what got her through it now?

So it's like some of the shite happened and some of it was erased, but there is no rhyme or reason to it...at least as of yet. But something tells me we aren't gonna get explanations on that at all.

I'm behind again, but that is my own fault. Interstellar Saturday, Bama Game Saturday, Saints Sunday, Finally got around to watching the extended version of the hobbit last night.

But I'm going to watch at-least two episodes tonight. Will discuss starting tonight or tomorrow. I may do a watch and comment thing again.