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Is one major cause of wealth disparity a poor rate of return on social security?

Posted on 5/28/14 at 8:17 am
Posted by NC_Tigah
Carolinas
Member since Sep 2003
123745 posts
Posted on 5/28/14 at 8:17 am
quote:

Conventional wisdom has it that a home—with a median sales price of about $290,000—is the average family’s biggest financial asset. But about 35 percent of Americans don’t own a home, and about two-thirds of homeowners have a mortgage, so their home asset is usually less than its face value.

So what is the average American’s biggest asset? The value of his or her Social Security benefits.
......

Their 2013 report estimates that a single male worker earning the average income of $44,800 (in 2013 dollars) turning 65 in 2015 can expect to receive $287,000 in Social Security benefits. However, that worker paid in $337,000, for a net loss of about $50,000. Both estimates assume a growth rate of 2 percent, which happens to match Piketty’s projection of long-term GDP growth.

That disparity between contributions and benefits declines significantly for women, who tend to live longer. A single female worker would have paid in the same amount, $337,000, but could expect to receive $314,000.

Thus, Social Security is the average American’s greatest financial asset, even bigger than their home equity—if workers had a private property right to their contributions. But the U.S. Supreme Court has ruled that they don’t. Congress can cut those benefits—as some members have proposed—or even (although very unlikely) eliminate them; and the only recourse Americans would have is at the polls.

But what if workers were able to put that same amount of money . . . into a personal retirement account that could be invested in broad-based equities?

.... since the market’s inception U.S. stocks’ average long-term real rate of return is about 7 percent. Financial Advisor magazine estimates that the future long-term real rate of return for U.S. stocks is closer to 5 percent—but both are close to the 6 percent that Picketty only ascribes to the wealthiest.

Using an interest calculator, a $5,555 annual contribution over 40 years at 6 percent grows to about $970,000. Factor in that wealth and income inequality largely evaporates. People don’t have to be in that top thousandth percent of income to get excellent returns on their money and create real wealth. All they need is a private property right to keep and invest what they are contributing to Social Security right now.

LINK
Posted by RCDfan1950
United States
Member since Feb 2007
34831 posts
Posted on 5/28/14 at 8:25 am to
Didn't some State entity down there in Galveston try this 20 years or so back, NC? Now those retirees are living large...and living proof that your theory works.

Of course, the Dems will scream wolf, pointing to Stock Market fluctuations and potential losses...but we in the know, know why. Because the Statists want to keep control of the money. Money = power. Statist desire power.

Real Entitlement reform would push such a fix for the young who pay in to the system; Rand Paul (or whomever) should get out front on this. They'd get a lot of support from the young electorate.

Posted by GumboPot
Member since Mar 2009
118550 posts
Posted on 5/28/14 at 8:29 am to
The fundamental issue with this analysis is the assumption that you would have more spending power with a rate of return of 6% versus 2%. That's normally true when a large group of the population is receiving 2% and a small group is receiving 6%. There is sufficient deflationary pressure on prices by the 2%ers for the 6%ers to enjoy.

The bottom line is when everyone is a millionaire no one is a millionaire. You need income disparity for the rich to enjoy their income. So even if the 2%ers started receiving 6%, a small group of smart people would receive 10% and the 6%ers would have the same spending power as the current 2%ers.
Posted by stuntman
Florida
Member since Jan 2013
9077 posts
Posted on 5/28/14 at 8:30 am to
Love the link, but even w/ ss robbing people over the years, senior citizens are still among the wealthiest groups in America.

Age has a lot to do w/ the wealth gap. I believe that cronie capitalism is probably the biggest factor, though.
Posted by JEAUXBLEAUX
Bayonne, NJ
Member since May 2006
55358 posts
Posted on 5/28/14 at 8:31 am to
Why is their a cap on social security tax? All income needs to be taxed and keep the program going for all Americans.
Posted by stuntman
Florida
Member since Jan 2013
9077 posts
Posted on 5/28/14 at 8:34 am to
What's helped the poor and infirm most; capital formation or welfare? (And yes, ss IS welfare)
Posted by GumboPot
Member since Mar 2009
118550 posts
Posted on 5/28/14 at 8:34 am to
quote:

Age has a lot to do w/ the wealth gap


As it should be. The older people have been on the earth the longest and have had the most time to make the most money.

BTW, there is nothing wrong with an income gap. Crying about income disparity is just Marxist propaganda.

Income disparity is healthy for society. It pushes and pulls people to be more productive. Complaining about income disparity is complaining about having to be productive.
Posted by dante
Kingwood, TX
Member since Mar 2006
10669 posts
Posted on 5/28/14 at 8:37 am to
The problem is that money paid into SS is not in an investment/interest bearing account, it is used to pay those currently collecting SS. Secondly, many recipients receive much more in benefits than they paid in. Also, SS is now paid to school age children diagnosed with ADHD.

Biggest ponzi scheme ever. Anyone trying to setup a business model based on SS would end up in prison.
Posted by GumboPot
Member since Mar 2009
118550 posts
Posted on 5/28/14 at 8:40 am to
quote:

Why is their a cap on social security tax?


If you are making over $113,700 for all practical purposes you'll end up paying what the equivalent of the SS tax because of the progressive nature of the tax code.
Posted by stuntman
Florida
Member since Jan 2013
9077 posts
Posted on 5/28/14 at 8:41 am to
I agree almost entirely w/ that. But, wealth disparities that get created because of government intervention are not a good thing for society.
Posted by Hog on the Hill
AR
Member since Jun 2009
13389 posts
Posted on 5/28/14 at 8:47 am to
I like the idea of eventually getting rid of SS and replacing it with a system that is a little more like a target retirement fund at Vanguard. Keep the expenses low by using index funds, and just rebalance a person's account based on their age and how near to retirement they are.

Contributions would be mandatory, like they are for SS.

It's wasteful for the majority of SS money to be sitting in low yield bonds. Sure, it protects the money, but it doesn't build wealth.

PS. I'm a dirty leftist
Posted by GumboPot
Member since Mar 2009
118550 posts
Posted on 5/28/14 at 8:52 am to
quote:

I like the idea of eventually getting rid of SS and replacing it with a system that is a little more like a target retirement fund at Vanguard. Keep the expenses low by using index funds, and just rebalance a person's account based on their age and how near to retirement they are.


I see A LOT of unintended consequences with this. Specifically bailouts.

As many complaints about the current system that I have the current system allows the equity class to enjoy their good financial decisions because there is a government class that places deflationary pressures on the market.
Posted by Taxing Authority
Houston
Member since Feb 2010
57017 posts
Posted on 5/28/14 at 9:15 am to
quote:

Their 2013 report estimates that a single male worker earning the average income of $44,800 (in 2013 dollars) turning 65 in 2015 can expect to receive $287,000 in Social Security benefits. However, that worker paid in $337,000, for a net loss of about $50,000
who would want this deal?

SS Is little more than a tax on the ignorant that don't understand compound earning.
Posted by Taxing Authority
Houston
Member since Feb 2010
57017 posts
Posted on 5/28/14 at 9:17 am to
quote:

All income needs to be taxed and keep the program going for all Americans.
Why?

Most Americans would better off without it. Why do you hate poor people?
Posted by NikolaiJakov
Moscow
Member since Mar 2014
2803 posts
Posted on 5/28/14 at 9:17 am to
quote:

SS Is little more than a tax on the ignorant that don't understand compound earning.


No, it's a tax on EVERYONE, but it was designed and passed by the ignorant.
Posted by Layabout
Baton Rouge
Member since Jul 2011
11082 posts
Posted on 5/28/14 at 9:30 am to
SS is more than a retirement plan. It's also disability insurance and survivor's insurance which together account for more than 25% of the recipients. When you assign some value to the insurance component, the figures make a lot more sense.
Posted by Taxing Authority
Houston
Member since Feb 2010
57017 posts
Posted on 5/28/14 at 9:32 am to
quote:

No, it's a tax on EVERYONE, but it was designed and passed by the ignorant.
Indeed.
Posted by Taxing Authority
Houston
Member since Feb 2010
57017 posts
Posted on 5/28/14 at 9:33 am to
quote:

When you assign some value to the insurance component, the figures make a lot more sense.
It doesn't increase the ROI to an individual taxpayer one bit, unless they are an SSI beneficiary.
This post was edited on 5/28/14 at 9:34 am
Posted by Ace Midnight
Between sanity and madness
Member since Dec 2006
89453 posts
Posted on 5/28/14 at 9:34 am to
quote:

Why is their a cap on social security tax? All income needs to be taxed and keep the program going for all Americans.


Are you going to uncap benefits?

Posted by NC_Tigah
Carolinas
Member since Sep 2003
123745 posts
Posted on 5/28/14 at 9:38 am to
quote:

The bottom line is when everyone is a millionaire no one is a millionaire. You need income disparity for the rich to enjoy their income. So even if the 2%ers started receiving 6%, a small group of smart people would receive 10% and the 6%ers would have the same spending power as the current 2%ers.
Except that statement does not hold in a world market, even if the return was applied to the entire US.
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