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Started By
Message
Frontline: United States of Secrets. Thoughts?
Posted on 5/14/14 at 8:25 am
Posted on 5/14/14 at 8:25 am
Anybody watch last night? Reviews? Opinions? I thought it was exceptional. A few things I thought were fascinating:
---------------------------------------------
* Pretty much the entire Dept. of Justice was prepared to resign at one point (basically over 4th Amendment Concerns).
* They already had an internet/email monitoring system developed before 9/11. They simply turned it on, but they turned off the encryption components for U.S. citizen based traffic (which was supposed to guarantee privacy/protect 4th amendment rights). The people who developed the system were shocked and stonewalled when they raised concerns.
* Many, many people raised red flags over privacy issues (NSA, Dept of Justice, White House) even though it was portrayed that pretty much everyone was on board/thought it was a good idea.
You can watch Part 1 here
Part 2 is next Tuesday
---------------------------------------------
* Pretty much the entire Dept. of Justice was prepared to resign at one point (basically over 4th Amendment Concerns).
* They already had an internet/email monitoring system developed before 9/11. They simply turned it on, but they turned off the encryption components for U.S. citizen based traffic (which was supposed to guarantee privacy/protect 4th amendment rights). The people who developed the system were shocked and stonewalled when they raised concerns.
* Many, many people raised red flags over privacy issues (NSA, Dept of Justice, White House) even though it was portrayed that pretty much everyone was on board/thought it was a good idea.
You can watch Part 1 here
Part 2 is next Tuesday
8
Posted on 5/14/14 at 8:26 am to a want
Will watch. Thanks for link.
Posted on 5/14/14 at 8:29 am to a want
Great doc and glad to see others are fighting for our freedoms from inside the DC machine.
Our privacy is slowly being eroded, however, and there is not much we can do about it.
Our privacy is slowly being eroded, however, and there is not much we can do about it.
Posted on 5/14/14 at 8:33 am to CherryGarciaMan
quote:
Great doc and glad to see others are fighting for our freedoms from inside the DC machine.
I was impressed by the government employees who put their careers and basically their lives on the line. It would have been so easy to simply look the other way. They knew they would be ruined if they spoke up, but they did it anyway.
Posted on 5/14/14 at 8:40 am to a want
I have a friend that is an Assistant US Attorney. He has never given me detailed tidbits, but has stated that based on what little he is privy to, the US Justice Department is off the reservation.
He has thought about hanging it up as well and was offered a shift of assignment to stay.
(Note: He is a fiscal conservative/social liberal that was hired during the Clinton years. He says that the Obama Administration is scary - and he voted for him the first go around.)
He has thought about hanging it up as well and was offered a shift of assignment to stay.
(Note: He is a fiscal conservative/social liberal that was hired during the Clinton years. He says that the Obama Administration is scary - and he voted for him the first go around.)
Posted on 5/14/14 at 9:06 am to a want
The part where the government stamped the unclassified documents Drake had as secret after the fact, made me a little sick.
Hope that wasn't a spoiler.
Hope that wasn't a spoiler.
Posted on 5/14/14 at 9:24 am to OleWar
The entire bullying and prosecution of the Thin Thread group made me sick.
It was also clear that Haden in his heart knew he was violating the constitution.
Ashcroft came across as a guy that realized the folly of signing those early orders and made a stand at the end.
Also shows how NYT was initially complicit in covering up the program - supports Greenwald's assertion in GQ that the media supplicates to power, not a party.
Obama is a hypocrite which at the end of the day does not make him unique as a politician. But you got a sense that some people voted for him purely on 4th amend concerns, including some libertarians/conservatives...it seemed to be the one thing, based on his history, he would actually do. FAIL.
The American people didn't seem to care...the early attempts to out the program weren't shocking enough apparently...we need the Snowden dump to wake us up...unfortunately.
It was also clear that Haden in his heart knew he was violating the constitution.
Ashcroft came across as a guy that realized the folly of signing those early orders and made a stand at the end.
Also shows how NYT was initially complicit in covering up the program - supports Greenwald's assertion in GQ that the media supplicates to power, not a party.
Obama is a hypocrite which at the end of the day does not make him unique as a politician. But you got a sense that some people voted for him purely on 4th amend concerns, including some libertarians/conservatives...it seemed to be the one thing, based on his history, he would actually do. FAIL.
The American people didn't seem to care...the early attempts to out the program weren't shocking enough apparently...we need the Snowden dump to wake us up...unfortunately.
Posted on 5/14/14 at 9:38 am to a want
What's interesting to me is that this was posted by a left of center poster. One thing we can all agree on is many of the agencies and bureaucracies of the federal government are not trustworthy.
The lessons of history tell us that expanded government power never leads to good outcomes.
The lessons of history tell us that expanded government power never leads to good outcomes.
Posted on 5/14/14 at 9:50 am to RidiculousHype
quote:
The lessons of history tell us that expanded government power never leads to good outcomes.
This.
Thanks for the link OP.
Posted on 5/14/14 at 9:56 am to a want
quote:
I thought it was exceptional.
It was great! It was saddening and maddening. Obama = Bush.
My only negative was when Bush/Cheney was discussed they made them seem like dictators but when Obama was discussed all of the interviewees were saying "he mulled the decision greatly" "he thought very deeply about national security" "national security was very important to him" "he didn't want blood on his hands"
It was insane what they did to Thomas Drake. Insane. I cannot believe we have a government that will go to those lengths to silence people. It is insane government workers cannot be whistle blowers or they are considered national security threats.
Posted on 5/14/14 at 10:59 am to a want
WOW.
What an incredible story.
Really puts things in perspective on how ignorant virtually all Americans are as to how the world really turns.
What an incredible story.
Really puts things in perspective on how ignorant virtually all Americans are as to how the world really turns.
Posted on 5/14/14 at 11:02 am to lsu13lsu
quote:
My only negative was when Bush/Cheney was discussed they made them seem like dictators but when Obama was discussed all of the interviewees were saying "he mulled the decision greatly" "he thought very deeply about national security" "national security was very important to him" "he didn't want blood on his hands"
They all came across as people who would violate the constitution and our rights out of fear....that they knew it was wrong, but thought preventing the possible "ends" justified the means.
What really came across to me regarding Bush's presidency was that Cheney was calling all the shots...I thought that made Bush look pretty bad.
Posted on 5/14/14 at 11:19 am to cwill
quote:
What really came across to me regarding Bush's presidency was that Cheney was calling all the shots...I thought that made Bush look pretty bad.
Yeah, they said Cheney's lawyer (not the president's) drew up the document to enable the expanded syping...and then it was kept in Cheney's safe. WTF? I wish they had gone into that more.
And when Gonzales (White House Counsel) signed the document (that the re-did) instead of Ashcroft who refused over concerns ...Bush was somehow unaware ... or that the shite hit the fan at The Justice Dept. I thought that was very strange.
Posted on 5/14/14 at 11:50 am to a want
NPR is interviewing Glenn Greenwald right now (guy who broke Snowden story).
ETA: This whole story really vindicates Snowden IMO. The whistle blowers got trampled.
ETA: This whole story really vindicates Snowden IMO. The whistle blowers got trampled.
This post was edited on 5/14/14 at 12:02 pm
Posted on 5/14/14 at 12:03 pm to a want
I was going to, but the wife wasn't very interested in the show so we ended up watching something else. Probably for the best, I already have a low enough opinion of the DC machine.
Posted on 5/14/14 at 12:54 pm to Aubie Spr96
quote:
This whole story really vindicates Snowden IMO. The whistle blowers got trampled.
I happened to catch that on my lunch break. Great interview. Snowden did the right thing. I don't see how anyone can argue this.
Posted on 5/14/14 at 1:18 pm to lsu13lsu
quote:
I happened to catch that on my lunch break. Great interview. Snowden did the right thing. I don't see how anyone can argue this.
I don't think he did the right thing, but I am certainly more sympathetic to him having seen the show.
IMO he should have made greater efforts through the appropriate channels. His motivation seems to have been more "celebrity" oriented. He could have also simply leaked the fact that the program was going on ...as opposed to some of the specific details that did tremendous irreparable damage to our national security.
Posted on 5/14/14 at 1:25 pm to a want
quote:
He could have also simply leaked the fact that the program was going on
People already tried that.
quote:
IMO he should have made greater efforts through the appropriate channels.
There are no appropriate channels for this. Greenwald said on the radio interview that Congressmen and Women know about it and cannot even talk about it.
Greenwald stated that Snowden went to great lengths to make sure only journalist got the documents in his possession. They could do what thought was best with them. So he tried to make sure he wasn't handing them to our enemies. Now that could all be B.S. I am sure Russia wouldn't be so friendly if he didn't share with them.
Posted on 5/14/14 at 2:36 pm to a want
quote:
IMO he should have made greater efforts through the appropriate channels.
Considering you watched the program how can you possibly come to the conclusion that the "appropriate channels" was the right way to go????
quote:
His motivation seems to have been more "celebrity" oriented.
Now you're parroting the government efforts to discredit Snowden.
quote:
He could have also simply leaked the fact that the program was going on
Did you really watch the program? If so, again, how can you possibly reach that conclusion???
quote:
.as opposed to some of the specific details that did tremendous irreparable damage to our national security.
What damage? They did damage to our constitution. Stop spying on Americans without a warrant or under an unconstitutional general warrant, assholes.
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