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Started By
Message
Someone convince me why Fuller is better than Verrett
Posted on 4/27/14 at 3:55 pm
Posted on 4/27/14 at 3:55 pm
Other than their size....
I would prefer a WR first if available, but with Bailey's age, Robinson being a free agent next year, and being unsure of how White will continue to develop I would definitely like a CB at 27 if the value is right.
I've been watching a good bit of highlights of the two of them. (Watched Roby too, but it didn't take long to realize I do not want him... Back turned to the defense too much, nothing too impressive on his breakups, mostly poor qb play.) Other than size, which I know is a big deal, I can't see how Fuller translates to a better pick.
Aside from just the typical vertical and 40 - both of which Verrett jumps higher and is faster in - he's bested Fuller in the 3 cone and shuttle by almost 2 tenths in each. This is evident in Verrett's film based on how well he recovers off the break, and how quickly he closes. He locates the ball in the air very well, recognizes the routes, positions his body well. Tackles well also. Most importantly, I couldn't find nearly as much, if any really, of him chasing after receivers.
I can't say the same thing for Fuller. He had his back to the ball a decent bit. He's got good change of direction and tackles very well, but I don't see him being ranked higher for anything other than size. I will say when he isn't turned around he keeps his eyes in the backfield very well and is pretty damn good in run support.
Am I missing something other than height? Only thing I can think is that Fuller may be a better impact special teams player. Yet, a majority of analysts have Fuller higher.
I would prefer a WR first if available, but with Bailey's age, Robinson being a free agent next year, and being unsure of how White will continue to develop I would definitely like a CB at 27 if the value is right.
I've been watching a good bit of highlights of the two of them. (Watched Roby too, but it didn't take long to realize I do not want him... Back turned to the defense too much, nothing too impressive on his breakups, mostly poor qb play.) Other than size, which I know is a big deal, I can't see how Fuller translates to a better pick.
Aside from just the typical vertical and 40 - both of which Verrett jumps higher and is faster in - he's bested Fuller in the 3 cone and shuttle by almost 2 tenths in each. This is evident in Verrett's film based on how well he recovers off the break, and how quickly he closes. He locates the ball in the air very well, recognizes the routes, positions his body well. Tackles well also. Most importantly, I couldn't find nearly as much, if any really, of him chasing after receivers.
I can't say the same thing for Fuller. He had his back to the ball a decent bit. He's got good change of direction and tackles very well, but I don't see him being ranked higher for anything other than size. I will say when he isn't turned around he keeps his eyes in the backfield very well and is pretty damn good in run support.
Am I missing something other than height? Only thing I can think is that Fuller may be a better impact special teams player. Yet, a majority of analysts have Fuller higher.
This post was edited on 4/27/14 at 3:56 pm
6
Posted on 4/27/14 at 4:08 pm to Zoltan
I honestly believe Verrett is the overall better corner but he lacks height...I still wouldn't mind Verrett though.
Posted on 4/27/14 at 4:08 pm to Zoltan
Its said if Verrett was 1.5" taller he would be top ten like a bullet.
Posted on 4/27/14 at 4:31 pm to Zoltan
Ryan likes CBs who can play press. At his size, Verrett my have trouble with that. It is an area of strength for Fuller.
Posted on 4/27/14 at 4:37 pm to Zoltan
Every now and then a sub 5'10" corner comes in and is really good. Will Verrett be one of those guys? I couldn't tell you, but I can tell you it's not impossible for him to be extremely good despite being barely shorter than the average corner.
This past season they had at least 5 guys play 50%+ of the snaps(some a lot closer to 100%) that were sub 5'10".
I think more than anything it will be the coaching and if these guys take to it that will determine how good they are, though I'd say Verrett has an advantage in that he is a legit corner right now.
This past season they had at least 5 guys play 50%+ of the snaps(some a lot closer to 100%) that were sub 5'10".
I think more than anything it will be the coaching and if these guys take to it that will determine how good they are, though I'd say Verrett has an advantage in that he is a legit corner right now.
Posted on 4/27/14 at 4:53 pm to bonethug0108
quote:
Every now and then a sub 5'10" corner comes in and is really good.
Yep. TM and Grimes were rated 2nd and 3rd by PFF.
But, it all depends on how the guy fits in the system, and what other players are around there.
Verrett reminds me of Brandon Flowers. Lacks ideal height, but is super quick and super fast, physical for his size, and has great cover skills and technique. But, you also wont see him guarding the Calvin Johnsons of the NFL. All depends on who you have around him, and how you use him.
I wouldnt mind Verrett at all. And I would take him over Fuller. I dont really understand the rise of Fuller. Wasnt great at the combine, but wasnt bad. Never played at a high level for Va Tech, but was never horrible, and missed half the season last year. Kinda baffled by it. I mean hes a solid prospect, but I dont think hes a 1st round CB prospect. I guess it has a lot to do with the demand at the CB spot and teams will reach on CBs. But I really dont get how hes moved up so much.
I do like his versatility though. And think hes a solid player. But I dont think he warrants a 1st round pick. Just my opinion, and it doesnt mean much
. But I just dont see what makes Fuller a better player than some of the CBs going in the mid rounds like Gaines, Roberson, McGill, etc. This post was edited on 4/27/14 at 5:07 pm
Posted on 4/27/14 at 5:00 pm to Zoltan
The problem with small corners now-a-days is that big receivers are getting so popular. Teams like Chicago who have two big targets on the outside are in a great position to exploit teams who don't have tall guys opposite both of the top receivers.
Verrett is destined to play the slot in today's NFL. it doesn't matter how fast he is if he gets manhandled by big guys who can catch the ball 50 inches over his head
Verrett is destined to play the slot in today's NFL. it doesn't matter how fast he is if he gets manhandled by big guys who can catch the ball 50 inches over his head
Posted on 4/27/14 at 5:04 pm to KG5989
Right I definitely agree with all of that. 
And yeah I don't think he comes in and defends VJ or CJ or AJ(well maybe him) or any other tall beast, but he can come in and stick on the 6'2" and under guys or the slower tall guys. He has the technique to make up for the size mismatch.
But not every team has a tall AND good WR, and if he came here to us Lewis would be the one sticking those guys anyway.
I wouldn't mind getting him, letting him play the slot for a year to get experience, and then moving him outside once Bailey goes/he passes him.
And yeah I don't think he comes in and defends VJ or CJ or AJ(well maybe him) or any other tall beast, but he can come in and stick on the 6'2" and under guys or the slower tall guys. He has the technique to make up for the size mismatch.
But not every team has a tall AND good WR, and if he came here to us Lewis would be the one sticking those guys anyway.
I wouldn't mind getting him, letting him play the slot for a year to get experience, and then moving him outside once Bailey goes/he passes him.
Posted on 4/27/14 at 5:05 pm to Rand AlThor
quote:Chicago has that but do any other teams actually have two tall(6'3" and up) AND good WRs?
Teams like Chicago who have two big targets on the outside are in a great position to exploit teams who don't have tall guys opposite both of the top receivers.
Legit question because I'm thinking and none come to mind right now.
This post was edited on 4/27/14 at 5:07 pm
Posted on 4/27/14 at 5:10 pm to bonethug0108
Fuller is not a 1st round talent.
Posted on 4/27/14 at 5:10 pm to bonethug0108
quote:
Chicago has that but do any other teams actually have two tall AND good WRs?
Nope. But I think we'll see a lot more of it soon - like how Evans is being mocked to Tampa. That would be formidable. Add in that a lot of teams (like us) are starting to use more TE-to-WR formations and it's downright terrifying.
Plus, there are some teams who have no tall corners at all. Our tallest is White at 6'1. Lewis is 6. So is Bailey. Robinson is 5'11.
It's just so easy to lose leverage against someone that is half a foot taller than you.
Posted on 4/27/14 at 5:12 pm to bonethug0108
Exactly... whoever we get at the CB position wont be our #1CB. He will be the #2 or #3 CB, depending on Champ. And if teams have 2 tall guys, we could stick Lewis and Bailey on them and have Verrett bump inside to the slot. Thats a nasty trio of CBs right there.
And the only teams that I can think of that have 2 tall and good WRs besides Chicago would be Atlanta? But its not like Roddy is a burner or even that tall, hes just a physical WR.
But, a lot can change in the draft. Lovie Smith is the coach that wanted Brandon Marshall at Chicago and drafted Alshon Jeffery. Hes in Tampa now and already had 1 big guy like VJax, and they are in the market for a WR and could take Mike Evans. And the Lions like Mike Evans as well.
Arizona with Fitz and Floyd? Texans with Andre and Hopkins? No QB to get them the ball though. And its not like some of these guys are great WRs. But thats pretty much all I could think of.
And the only teams that I can think of that have 2 tall and good WRs besides Chicago would be Atlanta? But its not like Roddy is a burner or even that tall, hes just a physical WR.
But, a lot can change in the draft. Lovie Smith is the coach that wanted Brandon Marshall at Chicago and drafted Alshon Jeffery. Hes in Tampa now and already had 1 big guy like VJax, and they are in the market for a WR and could take Mike Evans. And the Lions like Mike Evans as well.
Arizona with Fitz and Floyd? Texans with Andre and Hopkins? No QB to get them the ball though
. And its not like some of these guys are great WRs. But thats pretty much all I could think of. This post was edited on 4/27/14 at 5:23 pm
Posted on 4/27/14 at 5:18 pm to Rand AlThor
Tall receivers aren't something new. It isn't all of a sudden going to change into a two tall WR league. The problem is not that many guys are 6'3" and up, and a lot of them aren't any good.
I do agree about the TE thing and better receiving ones have been coming out(not that they weren't before but it's becoming more of the norm). And maybe that's where a lot of the tall "WRs" are disappearing to.
And Lewis is a great example of a guy being shorter than the guy he is covering and out technique-ing him. He practically shut down Marshall and VJ and whatever tall receiver we had him on. Sure he wasn't always perfect but he was close to shut down at times.
And like I said, you wouldn't be putting Verrett on those really bug guys unless you have to face the Bears(and maybe TB if they pick Evans).
I do agree about the TE thing and better receiving ones have been coming out(not that they weren't before but it's becoming more of the norm). And maybe that's where a lot of the tall "WRs" are disappearing to.
And Lewis is a great example of a guy being shorter than the guy he is covering and out technique-ing him. He practically shut down Marshall and VJ and whatever tall receiver we had him on. Sure he wasn't always perfect but he was close to shut down at times.
And like I said, you wouldn't be putting Verrett on those really bug guys unless you have to face the Bears(and maybe TB if they pick Evans).
Posted on 4/27/14 at 5:21 pm to KG5989
quote:I was thinking Atlanta but Roddy is only 6'0"(which I believe is only average for a receiver's height).
And the only teams that I can think of that have 2 tall and good WRs besides Chicago would be Atlanta?
And yeah that's a good point too. Not only would you need two tall and good WRs, but also at least a decent QB to throw to them.
Floyd is 6'2" and Fitz 6'3". So while both are on the taller side, neither is CJ big.
Same thing in Texas. Hopkins is only 6'1" and Johnson 6'3". On the tall side but not overly so.
Chicago may literally be the only team.
This post was edited on 4/27/14 at 5:25 pm
Posted on 4/27/14 at 5:22 pm to bonethug0108
Yea I said Roddy isnt exactly a huge WR height wise. But he def plays a lot taller than he is and is a very physical WR. But those are pretty much the only teams that I can think of, and not all of them are legit.
Posted on 4/27/14 at 5:30 pm to bonethug0108
Tampa Bay will after they get evans .
Seriously though, there's only a handful of teams (not including TEs) with two decent 6'2-3 WRs.
Chicago (Marshall/Jeffery), Arizona (Floyd/Fitzgerald), Cincy (Green/Jones) and Denver (Decker/Thomas) are off the top of my head. More have around 6'1 for their #2s, but In Cincy and Zona's case it is a stretch to consider Floyd and Jones really good.
. Seriously though, there's only a handful of teams (not including TEs) with two decent 6'2-3 WRs.
Chicago (Marshall/Jeffery), Arizona (Floyd/Fitzgerald), Cincy (Green/Jones) and Denver (Decker/Thomas) are off the top of my head. More have around 6'1 for their #2s, but In Cincy and Zona's case it is a stretch to consider Floyd and Jones really good.
Posted on 4/27/14 at 5:38 pm to htran90
Denver lost Decker, but yeah that did work well for them. But the QB was also Manning(the good one). Trying to remember who they added.
Ah yes, Sanders who is 5'11".
I think the more you dig the more you can see that there just aren't that many tall and good WRs. Very few good ones over 6'2" or 6'3".
That said, I don't see the issue with Verrett's height in the league as long as his talent is what it looked like it was on film.
Trying to remember who they added. Ah yes, Sanders who is 5'11".
I think the more you dig the more you can see that there just aren't that many tall and good WRs. Very few good ones over 6'2" or 6'3".
That said, I don't see the issue with Verrett's height in the league as long as his talent is what it looked like it was on film.
This post was edited on 4/27/14 at 5:42 pm
Posted on 4/27/14 at 11:13 pm to bonethug0108
Y'all are comparing a corners ability to cover Calvin Johnson. No one can cover him it takes two people to do so.
I have loved Verrett from the get go dude is a baller.No need to knock him for his height when he shows on film that he can cover. He played really well against LSU against Jarvis and the great OBJ (not as high on him as most people on here)
I have loved Verrett from the get go dude is a baller.No need to knock him for his height when he shows on film that he can cover. He played really well against LSU against Jarvis and the great OBJ
(not as high on him as most people on here)Posted on 4/27/14 at 11:36 pm to Isaid
Nah that's just worse case scenario. More realistically he can come in and cover almost anyone's #2(imo) despite giving up 1-5"(5'10"-6'2").
I'm actually saying that despite his height he is going to be better than many other taller corners in this draft.
I'm actually saying that despite his height he is going to be better than many other taller corners in this draft.
Posted on 4/27/14 at 11:39 pm to bonethug0108
Everyone in this thread is Fuller it.
Thank you.
Thank you.
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