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Started By
Message
Someone help me out with Ukraine....
Posted on 3/29/14 at 9:50 am
Posted on 3/29/14 at 9:50 am
Sorry I'm just not a geopolitical think tank
Ukraine is an independent country formerly of the USSR? Correct?
Putin made a land grab of Crimea just before their parliament was going to vote to join the EU? Correct?
And Putin's puppet of a PM (don't know names) was ousted by vote and an independent PM took leadership? Correct?
So if the US and NATO stood its ground and put forces on the ground in Ukraine (I know it's not a NATO member and this would be a far fetched scenario) the Ukrainian people would stand with us or against us? Or would it turn into another Iraq and we would be smack dab in the middle of another bloody quagmire of a civil war?
In my thoughts, Putin needs to be stopped. If he rolls into Ukraine (should say when) and meets with no opposition he will keep going....I guess kinda like 1938 all over again.
Ukraine is an independent country formerly of the USSR? Correct?
Putin made a land grab of Crimea just before their parliament was going to vote to join the EU? Correct?
And Putin's puppet of a PM (don't know names) was ousted by vote and an independent PM took leadership? Correct?
So if the US and NATO stood its ground and put forces on the ground in Ukraine (I know it's not a NATO member and this would be a far fetched scenario) the Ukrainian people would stand with us or against us? Or would it turn into another Iraq and we would be smack dab in the middle of another bloody quagmire of a civil war?
In my thoughts, Putin needs to be stopped. If he rolls into Ukraine (should say when) and meets with no opposition he will keep going....I guess kinda like 1938 all over again.
5
Posted on 3/29/14 at 9:56 am to lsuroadie
quote:
Putin made a land grab of Crimea just before their parliament was going to vote to join the EU? Correct?
And Putin's puppet of a PM (don't know names) was ousted by vote and an independent PM took leadership? Correct?
you may be mixing events and people between Urkaine and Crimea as a subpart . . . but some of what you say has some truth to it
quote:
Or would it turn into another Iraq and we would be smack dab in the middle of another bloody quagmire of a civil war?
Maybe plus everybody has nuclear weapons
quote:
In my thoughts, Putin needs to be stopped. If he rolls into Ukraine (should say when) and meets with no opposition he will keep going....I guess kinda like 1938 all over again.
Nope. Not really. Only the most hawkish of observers are dragging out that tired old chestnut of 1938, Hitler, Czechoslovakia. The smart people know that's not really Putin's ultimate goal.
Posted on 3/29/14 at 9:57 am to lsuroadie
quote:And this hasn't been ran into the ground quite yet.... thanks for the original thoughts
.I guess kinda like 1938 all over again.
Posted on 3/29/14 at 10:01 am to lsuroadie
Ukraine is a country where Russia, led by Josef Stalin, intentionally starved the populace in the 1930s resulting in the death of millions of its citizens who at times resorted to cannibalism to survive.
Posted on 3/29/14 at 10:17 am to VOR
quote:why? Seriously. I believe it was Austria btw but point taken
Nope. Not really. Only the most hawkish of observers are dragging out that tired old chestnut of 1938, Hitler, Czechoslovakia. The smart people know that's not really Putin's ultimate goal.
Posted on 3/29/14 at 10:21 am to VOR
quote:
Nope. Not really. Only the most hawkish of observers are dragging out that tired old chestnut of 1938, Hitler, Czechoslovakia. The smart people know that's not really Putin's ultimate g
The smart people know it's Stalin and Latvia.
Posted on 3/29/14 at 10:22 am to lsuroadie
quote:
Putin made a land grab of Crimea just before their parliament was going to vote to join the EU? Correct?
Crimea was not going to vote to join the EU; Ukraine was. The Crimeans are ethnic Russians. The Ukrainians are not.
Hypothetical... Let's say that Texas (Ukraine) is an independent nation and let's say Mexico is a superpower. The people living in El Paso (Crimea) are majority ethnic Mexicans. They want to join Mexico. So Mexico uses it as a pretext to annex El Paso but not the whole of Texas.
Posted on 3/29/14 at 10:30 am to Zach
Russia has significant assets in the Ukraine they will do something about if any shenanigans begin. Uranium mines, Oil pipe lines and NG Gas lines. There is a reason Putin is putting the troops on the border and reinforcing supply lines to those troops.
All he needs is the excuse.
All he needs is the excuse.
Posted on 3/29/14 at 10:31 am to Zahrim
But yesterday he promised that he would not invade Ukraine.
Posted on 3/29/14 at 10:37 am to lsuroadie
Just remember the name "Narva, Estonia."
Putin will make it a household word soon.
Putin will make it a household word soon.
Posted on 3/29/14 at 10:43 am to Zach
quote:
Hypothetical... Let's say that Texas (Ukraine) is an independent nation and let's say Mexico is a superpower. The people living in El Paso (Crimea) are majority ethnic Mexicans. They want to join Mexico. So Mexico uses it as a pretext to annex El Paso but not the whole of Texas.
Posted on 3/29/14 at 10:44 am to VOR
quote:
The smart people know that's not really Putin's ultimate goal.
that's pretty juvenile, how is it the "smart" people know what Putin's goal is? Do the "smart" people think that communist have nothing but "good" intentions?
Posted on 3/29/14 at 10:51 am to Zach
quote:
But yesterday he promised that he would not invade Ukraine.
Posted on 3/29/14 at 10:51 am to VOR
quote:
Maybe plus everybody has nuclear weapons
Ukraine doesn't they gave theirs up with assurances from the Wast and Russia that their borders would be secure in the Budapest Memorandum.
This set of events and Obama's pusillanimity makes Iran's desire for a nuclear capability even more justified (not that it wasn't already).
quote:
The smart people know that's not really Putin's ultimate goal.
What is Putin's ultimate goal? More of Ukraine, the rest of Georgia? Perhaps some of the Baltics? There are Russians in the near abroad all around the periphery. What is the goal smart guy7?
Posted on 3/29/14 at 11:55 am to CarrolltonTiger
Released by the Russian Information dept. (after Google translation).
They seem to be building (fabricating) a case for further incursion into Ukraine.
LINK
quote:
Less visible, but no less dramatic is the situation around living in Ukraine of ethnic Germans, Czechs, Hungarians and other minorities. They are concerned about the unstable political situation in the country and seriously fear for their lives, directly confronted with the excesses that continue to create homegrown fascists and ultra-nationalists. Because of this, recently recorded a significant increase in the number of persons wishing to either temporarily or permanently leave their historic homeland. More and more people are seeking asylum in Ukraine and Russia.
We believe that the fate of these people should not pass unnoticed by the influential international organizations, including UN, OSCE, Council of Europe, which should in fact clearly demonstrate their willingness to defend their rights. Expect from international human rights bodies and institutions fundamental assumptions regarding gross violations of human rights, including minority rights, by "the new Ukrainian authorities."
They seem to be building (fabricating) a case for further incursion into Ukraine.
LINK
Posted on 3/29/14 at 12:18 pm to Zach
quote:
The Crimeans are ethnic Russians.
58%, so there are other people there.
Posted on 3/29/14 at 12:21 pm to Big12fan
quote:So some people living in Ukraine are seeking asylum in Ukraine?? I'm guessing their asylum request will be granted....
More and more people are seeking asylum in Ukraine and Russia.
This post was edited on 3/29/14 at 12:25 pm
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