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Let's get back on track, why SG people are fighting (very long)

Posted on 3/25/14 at 11:08 am
Posted by doubleb
Baton Rouge
Member since Aug 2006
35883 posts
Posted on 3/25/14 at 11:08 am
It's probably easier to read here:LINK

St. George battle long in the making

By Rolfe McCollister
Published Dec 9, 2013 at 6:00 am (Updated Dec 10, 2013)
There is a lot of debate, anger and finger-pointing regarding the proposal to create a new City of St. George. There are studies being commissioned and secret meetings to figure out the impact and how to stop the movement. But the breakaway effort is not the problem or the cause of the problem—it is just a symptom and inevitable reaction to a larger problem this community and its elected officials have failed to address for decades: poor schools.


This train has been coming down the tracks for years and picking up steam. Everyone seemed to be just fine with it as long as its route remained to the north. Baker got its own school system. Then came Zachary. You couldn't blame them—but where was the opposition then?


The Central community saw the benefits to Zachary and wanted control of their schools too—and freedom from the dysfunctional EBR school board. Who can blame the parents for that? But for the wrong reasons, the Legislature thought they could force Central to remain in the EBR system, thereby protecting the turf and money for the EBR board instead of addressing the real problem: quality education. Kip Holden, then a state senator, argued that Central wasn't a city (which is not required by law to have an independent school district). It was a ruse, and one Central overcame simply by creating a city. So they got their school district—and parents in southeast East Baton Rouge Parish, many of whom are paying a private tuition, or considering it versus moving to Livingston or Ascension, were jealous. Can you blame them?


If EBR wouldn't fix the schools, they wanted control of their schools and their own system too. So they too went to the Legislature. The train was rolling. "Local Schools for Local Children" (now City of St. George) approached the Legislature like everyone else for an independent school district—not a city. And legislators denied them a vote by the people—twice. The opposition was led by members of the black caucus, who listened to the pleas of the EBR school board (and the unions) to protect the status quo. Legislators didn't learn from Holden's mistake on Central: They said they "can't support you because you are not a city."


Big mistake. Mayor Kip Holden may have been willing to give up Central, but can he live without the Mall of Louisiana? After a second defeat, southeast EBR had their hand forced by the legislature and EBR School Board and started the petition for a city. Those legislators may now cost the city $60 million a year in lost revenues as estimated by one study. Not a smart move.





Our community leaders and elected officials have to look in the mirror—and at our history—to see how we got in this predicament. It didn't just happen in 2012 and 2013.


We have had mayors McHugh, Simpson and Holden say, both in campaigns and in office, that the schools are not the responsibility of the mayor-president. They said that is the job of the school board. Well, that attitude has left our city and parish with (potentially) five cities and five school districts within our parish lines and children who can't read or graduate.


But it wasn't just our mayors who had blind spots and divided loyalties and failed to stand up to the powers that be to avoid the current situation we find ourselves facing. Over the years, too many community leaders had a "go along to get along" policy and played nice with the education establishment and elected officials. When school board members like Pat Smith said they could see the light of educational improvement at the end of the tunnel, too many believed it, not realizing that light was the oncoming train gaining steam.


A defining moment in this whole sorry history for me was in 2001. His name was Scott Shirey. A Teach For America teacher in Baton Rouge who became a KIPP Academy Fellow and approached our school board to open a charter school in north Baton Rouge. He was denied by our school board and shown out of town thanks in part to Pat Smith—who is now Rep. Pat Smith and leads the opposition to the new ISD for southeast EBR in the Legislature. In 2011, Forbes Magazine listed Shirey as one of the world's seven most powerful educators. He has been featured on 60 Minutes. He now heads four schools in one of the poorest areas of Arkansas—and they send kids to college.


But did leaders in our own community believe in KIPP and reform, and did they gather to campaign for Shirey 12 years ago? Or did we leave it up to the school board and assume things would get better?

Put another way, the seeds of discontent that have grown into the battle today over St. George, began in 2001 and prior. Back then, community leaders and mayors could have taken a risk, embraced change and embraced school choice—but we didn't. We let others, such as Smith, determine our future. And now we let her do it again in the Legislature, killing the bill for a vote on the new ISD. She may be gloating of her political prowess and her union friends may be smiling, but the stakes are even higher, and the consequences of her politics then and now still harm children—and may impact the finances of the city.


If we had fixed our school system by being innovative and if we had held leaders accountable, would we even be having this debate on the City of St. George? I think not. (Remember, the group came to the Legislature two years ago as Local Schools for Local Children.) Instead we wasted time turning over school board members, changing out superintendents and throwing money at the same old system. So how long did we expect parents to wait?


The train has been picking up steam for years and made stops in Baker, Zachary and Central. And if it is successful in stopping in southeast EBR, don't be surprised if the next destination is south Baton Rouge.


The current debate did not emerge overnight and it is not just about folks living in southeast EBR. Education matters to our future, and folks aren't going to wait or settle for old, tasteless government rations. They will revolt for something better for their children – and many don't want to move or pay tuition and taxes. I can't fault them for that. But I will ask those behind "St. George" to consider re-focusing on their original purpose—an independent school district—which I support. They may find that many see things more clearly now.
This post was edited on 3/25/14 at 11:09 am
Posted by RidiculousHype
St. George, LA
Member since Sep 2007
10187 posts
Posted on 3/25/14 at 11:56 am to
Great read. It really is a simple, understandable situation that's only gotten muddled because of the opposition.

The status quo is a hard thing to change but I wish them luck. Decades of failed leadership has consequences, eventually.
Posted by BigJim
Baton Rouge
Member since Jan 2010
14477 posts
Posted on 3/25/14 at 12:04 pm to
Duh.

The move for a seperate city was a foolish distraction in response to a non-issue:

quote:

Kip Holden, then a state senator, argued that Central wasn't a city (which is not required by law to have an independent school district). It was a ruse,


Now a lot of ideas are floating around. Not sure how I feel about any of them, but at least we are looking at really reforming the system.

Posted by moneyg
Member since Jun 2006
56350 posts
Posted on 3/25/14 at 12:24 pm to
quote:

Great read. It really is a simple, understandable situation that's only gotten muddled because of the opposition.



Exactly.

Posted by TROLA
BATON ROUGE
Member since Apr 2004
12291 posts
Posted on 3/25/14 at 12:32 pm to
I agree with what hes saying and its why I have sympathy for the movement. Sympathy that ends with the actual splitting of the city. How we get to the heart of the problem is tough and wont come easy but its a better solution than what will transpire if the St George vote is brought to task.
Posted by moneyg
Member since Jun 2006
56350 posts
Posted on 3/25/14 at 12:39 pm to
quote:

Sympathy that ends with the actual splitting of the city


St. George isn't a part of the city of Baton Rouge.

Posted by TROLA
BATON ROUGE
Member since Apr 2004
12291 posts
Posted on 3/25/14 at 12:43 pm to
quote:

St. George isn't a part of the city of Baton Rouge.


Just stop.. Im not going to argue about imaginary boundary lines because if this gets to the vote..those lines will shift
Posted by kingbob
Sorrento, LA
Member since Nov 2010
66997 posts
Posted on 3/25/14 at 12:46 pm to
quote:

Just stop.. Im not going to argue about imaginary boundary lines because if this gets to the vote..those lines will shift


But those imaginary boundary lines that were drawn by the city government are a huge part of what this St. George debate is about. You can't debate St. George without talking about how Baton Rouge has gerrymandered the city limits for decades.
Posted by tiderider
Member since Nov 2012
7703 posts
Posted on 3/25/14 at 12:54 pm to
no affluent person will send their kids to kipp, so i'm not sure why kipp is mentioned as part of this story (the desire for st george residents to have better schools) ... i suppose you could claim kipp would make the surrounding district better, but no districts adopt the same organizational methods that kipp does, so i doubt that would work ...

best of luck to them, though ... hope they succeed ... the ebr schools ain't gonna improve in their lifetime ...
Posted by LSURussian
Member since Feb 2005
126942 posts
Posted on 3/25/14 at 12:54 pm to
quote:

You can't debate St. George without talking about how Baton Rouge has gerrymandered the city limits for decades.
What part(s) outside the city limits has asked be incorporated "for decades" and the city parish council has refused their request?

What part(s) of the incorporated city area did not want to be in the city but was included anyway in spite of their objections?

I don't remember either scenario happening. If you do, I'd like to read about it if you can provide a link. Thanks.
This post was edited on 3/25/14 at 12:57 pm
Posted by LSURussian
Member since Feb 2005
126942 posts
Posted on 3/25/14 at 12:56 pm to
quote:

no affluent person will send their kids to kipp, so i'm not sure why kipp is mentioned as part of this story (the desire for st george residents to have better schools) ... i suppose you could claim kipp would make the surrounding district better, but no districts adopt the same organizational methods that kipp does
Who is "kipp"?
Posted by TROLA
BATON ROUGE
Member since Apr 2004
12291 posts
Posted on 3/25/14 at 12:57 pm to
The article is about the heart of the problem..education.. Which I'm in total agreement with and a problem that needs to be fixed. I'm of the belief that if st George splits, the education problems will still be prevalent for quite some time because the money is going to be split..redundancy and capital outlays will be daunting for them to overcome in the near term.. We will ultimately be spending money in multiple places and spending more trying to achieve the same thing. I believe the answer is in splitting the school district apart and Im disappointed that there was opposition to this movement. I hope that a rebirth of this movement can come out of this without the disaster that is behind door no. 2. I do not believe that St. George will keep the bluebonnet retail district or some other tax bases that are needed to make this viable.

Central had a distance spread between BR and it made since for them to form for education.. this isnt the same IMO
Posted by tiderider
Member since Nov 2012
7703 posts
Posted on 3/25/14 at 1:10 pm to
quote:

LSURussian
Let's get back on track, why SG people are fighting (very long)
quote:
no affluent person will send their kids to kipp, so i'm not sure why kipp is mentioned as part of this story (the desire for st george residents to have better schools) ... i suppose you could claim kipp would make the surrounding district better, but no districts adopt the same organizational methods that kipp does
Who is "kipp"?


KIPP is an organization that establishes charter schools around the country ... stands for "knowledge is power/something/etc" ... they are the most successful charter school movement ... they do not establish schools unless the surrounding district allows it (i think) ... essentially, they're much tougher on kid's behavior (strict dress code, no talking in hallways or lunch), have longer school days, saturday school, and whatever amount is necessary in the summer to catch up (usually 3 weeks) ... they have a bit more "toughness" when dealing with students, can kick students out more easily (has led to claims they kick out sped kids who will score low on standardized tests), require parents to sign a contract that states the kid will be where/when kipp requires it ... kids are ostracized somehow if they misbehave, don't do hw, etc by having to wear shirt inside out, not allowed to eat with other kids, etc ...
Posted by LSURussian
Member since Feb 2005
126942 posts
Posted on 3/25/14 at 1:22 pm to
Thanks for the explanation.
Posted by moneyg
Member since Jun 2006
56350 posts
Posted on 3/25/14 at 1:28 pm to
quote:

Im not going to argue about imaginary boundary lines because if this gets to the vote..those lines will shift


What lines will shift?
Posted by BigJim
Baton Rouge
Member since Jan 2010
14477 posts
Posted on 3/25/14 at 1:44 pm to
quote:

What lines will shift?


If a SG incorporation comes to vote, the City of Baton Rouge will annex several tax-generating properties: mall of LA, perkins row, the casino, etc.

Posted by Jimbeaux
Member since Sep 2003
20105 posts
Posted on 3/25/14 at 2:00 pm to
quote:


If a SG incorporation comes to vote, the City of Baton Rouge will annex several tax-generating properties: mall of LA, perkins row, the casino, etc.


How does that work? What is the process for Baton Rouge to annex territory into the city?
Posted by kingbob
Sorrento, LA
Member since Nov 2010
66997 posts
Posted on 3/25/14 at 2:05 pm to
quote:

How does that work? What is the process for Baton Rouge to annex territory into the city?


A vote from the metro council and the signature of the mayor-president along with a vote by the residents of those areas. Since no one lives in the areas they'd be annexing, the election would be moot.

The question that should be asked is, why aren't those areas already in the city? The reason is the US DOJ. Because the affluent business areas are generally heavily white, incorporating them into the city would "dilute minority voting power" in the eyes of the DOJ and Baton Rouge could be sued to stop it. In this case, they're already playing chicken with the St. George people (whom DOJ might sue anyways for trying to break away to form a "lighter" school district) so they don't care about the potential DOJ consequences.

As usual, much of the source of the problem is the federal government exercising power it shouldn't have over a matter that should be of no concern to it.
Posted by BigJim
Baton Rouge
Member since Jan 2010
14477 posts
Posted on 3/25/14 at 2:17 pm to
quote:

A vote from the metro council and the signature of the mayor-president along with a vote by the residents of those areas. Since no one lives in the areas they'd be annexing, the election would be moot.

The question that should be asked is, why aren't those areas already in the city? The reason is the US DOJ. Because the affluent business areas are generally heavily white, incorporating them into the city would "dilute minority voting power" in the eyes of the DOJ and Baton Rouge could be sued to stop it. In this case, they're already playing chicken with the St. George people (whom DOJ might sue anyways for trying to break away to form a "lighter" school district) so they don't care about the potential DOJ consequences.

As usual, much of the source of the problem is the federal government exercising power it shouldn't have over a matter that should be of no concern to i


That might be some of it, but I think the real reason is keeping taxes lower, particularly for the regional retail centers like Mall of LA and Perkins Row.

If the city annexed them, taxes would go up. That would probably result in higher prices for consumers (and/or less profit). That makes retail centers outside the parish more attractive. It also makes these retail centers less attractive making it harder to recruit stores to fill vacant space. Malls with empty storefronts aren't good for anyone.

Posted by LSURussian
Member since Feb 2005
126942 posts
Posted on 3/25/14 at 2:19 pm to
quote:

How does that work? What is the process for Baton Rouge to annex territory into the city?
Sorry, it's a long read but it's straight from the City Parish Plan of Government.

LINK

quote:

SECTION 1.09 Additions to the Boundaries of the City of Baton Rouge

Whenever a majority in number and amount of property tax payers, as certified by the Assessor, in any compact body of land adjoining the City of Baton Rouge but not part of an industrial area, shall petition the governing body of the city to be included in the boundaries of the City of Baton Rouge the said body shall fix a time, not less than ten nor more than thirty days after the filing of such petition, at which it shall hold a public hearing on the proposal to so extend the boundaries of the City of Baton Rouge.

Notice of such hearing and of its time, place, objects and purposes, shall be given by publication twice in the official journal of the parish, which publication shall be completed not less than five days prior to the hearing. The valuation of the property owned by each of the signers of the petition shall be certified by the Parish Assessor as the valuation of such property appears in the last completed assessment of property, provided that he shall take account of subsequent change of ownership and if in any case the property of the present owner has not been specifically assessed the Assessor is authorized and directed to estimate the value of such property.

After the conclusion of the hearing the governing body of the city may in its discretion add by ordinance, without additional public hearing, such body of land to the boundaries of the City of Baton Rouge and as such it shall become part of the City of Baton Rouge.

Such ordinance shall be published in accordance with law and shall not go into effect until the thirtieth day following its final passage. During such period any citizen of the city or the area proposed to be added thereto may file and appeal therefrom in the District Court in the manner and with the effect provided by law.

After the conclusion of such period the ordinance shall not be contested or attacked for any reason or cause whatever. (As amended October 20, 2007)
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