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re: Before Bregman is finished playing baseball, he will be the GOAT from LSU.
Posted on 2/17/14 at 5:00 pm to ell_13
Posted on 2/17/14 at 5:00 pm to ell_13
quote:
Ive never thought about it before today. But it sure seems to chap your arse that people assume he has.
Nah,....what chaps my arse is that I know how difficult it is to hit good pitching and seeing a great hitter not getting credit because somebody assumes he's juicing when there's no evidence to support it. Personally, I've always thought the benefit of steroids is exaggerated. Hitting a baseball is about pitch recognition, weight transfer, hip rotation and bat speed that is generated in the wrists. If it was all about upper body development, the greatest homerun hitters in ther game would have been built like linebackers. Bonds was hitting opposite field HR's as a 185 lb. rookie, McGwire his 49 HRs as a 215 lb. rookie.
How did Hank Aaron hit 755 HRs at and 6'0 and 180 lbs. and Willie Mays hit 660 HRs at 5'10 and 170 lbs? Yet Albert Belle hits 381 HR's at 6'2 and 225 lbs. and he's juicing? Prove it.
2
Posted on 2/17/14 at 5:03 pm to LSU82BILL
You say "no" then explain why it's a yes.
Posted on 2/17/14 at 5:08 pm to ell_13
Good point....I guess what I'm trying to say is not giving the guy credit for what he did chaps my arse more than what people he assumes he did, especially since I don't think steroids is the factor people believe it is.
Posted on 2/17/14 at 5:12 pm to LSU82BILL
I've seen shitty baseball players take steroids. They're still shitty baseball players. But I've seen talented players take it and their numbers go from good/great to the next level.
Posted on 2/17/14 at 5:16 pm to LSU82BILL
I'm going to side with LSU82Bill on the fact that steroids, or no steroids, Belle was legit. He played smack dab in the middle of the steroid era, yet his numbers stood out even with that group. Is anyone here accusing him of using more steroids than Jose Canseco, Brady Anderson, etc? Belle, even if he was juicing, was a top echelon MLB player for the entire decade of the 90s. He wasn't a one hit steroid wonder.
Posted on 2/17/14 at 5:31 pm to ell_13
quote:
I've seen shitty baseball players take steroids. They're still shitty baseball players. But I've seen talented players take it and their numbers go from good/great to the next level.
Every player at the major league level has a considerable amount of talent. Very few have that "elite" talent. We tend to focus on players like Bonds, Sosa, McGwire, Palmeiro, A-Rod, etc. They definitely went to the next level but still, would have been the best in the game regardless. But you can look a the Mitchell report and find a lot of VERY talented players who were named in the report that didn't go "to the next level".
Posted on 2/17/14 at 5:31 pm to LSURussian
quote:
You're going to be waiting for a long time. Todd Walker is retired.
Thanks. THat was the joke.
Posted on 2/17/14 at 5:37 pm to LSU82BILL
Everyone has their own "next level". Who's to say those guys would have ever gotten to MLB? Or would have hit 5 HRs instead of 15?
The thing about the ones you listed is they went from elite to breaking records all over the place including the pitchers
The thing about the ones you listed is they went from elite to breaking records all over the place including the pitchers
This post was edited on 2/17/14 at 6:04 pm
Posted on 2/17/14 at 5:58 pm to LSU82BILL
quote:Roger Clemens and Lance Armstrong say hey.
It must really eat at you that he never tested positive
Posted on 2/17/14 at 5:59 pm to Moustache
quote:Sorry. I think I need to recalibrate my sarcasm meter.
Thanks. THat was the joke.
Posted on 2/17/14 at 6:02 pm to LSURussian
u mad?
Posted on 2/17/14 at 6:08 pm to Lester Earl
No, you?
Posted on 2/17/14 at 6:22 pm to ell_13
quote:
I've seen shitty baseball players take steroids. They're still shitty baseball players. But I've seen talented players take it and their numbers go from good/great to the next level.
Jason Giambi - 43 HR's in 2000. Admitted to taking steroids in 2001 (38 HRs) and 2002 (41 HRs)
Gary Sheffield - 42 HRs in 1996. Averaged 34.5 HR and 143 games played from 1999-2002. Hit 39 in 155 games in 2003 - the year he was accused of juicing.
Chuck Knoblauch - Hit .277 or better 9 times in 10 seasons from 1991 - 2000. Started taking HGH in 2001 and went on to hit .250 and .210 in 2002. Out of the game at 33.
David Justice - Averaged 29 HR 1997-2000. Bought HGH after 2000 World Series. Hit 18 HRs in 2001 (111 games) and 11 in 2002 (118 games) and retired
Matt Williams - Averaged 30 HR from 1990-1999. Started using HGH in 2002 - Hit 16 HR in 104 games between 2002 and 2003 and retired.
Posted on 2/17/14 at 6:24 pm to LSURussian
quote:
Roger Clemens (accused by his supplier under oath) and Lance Armstrong (admitted user) say hey.
FIFY
Posted on 2/17/14 at 6:26 pm to LSU82BILL
Did either of them ever test positive for PED's?
Posted on 2/17/14 at 6:26 pm to LSU82BILL
I know the numbers. But I'm not trusting your assumptions as to when they started HGH or anything else. Not to mention that HGH was used as much for injuries and rehab to get these older guys back in the lineup sooner therefor inflating numbers. Imagine how much worse they would have been? And HGH wasn't the only thing used.
Posted on 2/17/14 at 6:27 pm to LSU82BILL
quote:
Personally, I've always thought the benefit of steroids is exaggerated. Hitting a baseball is about pitch recognition, weight transfer, hip rotation and bat speed that is generated in the wrists. If it was all about upper body development, the greatest homerun hitters in ther game would have been built like linebackers.
I happen to agree with a lot of what you say about Belle, but I have to say that I hate this argument. It's like saying that because a 15 handicapper in golf with a titanium driver can't beat a scratch golfer with a persimmon driver, then titanium drivers must not be all that. The point is if you then give the scratch golfer a titanium driver, he becomes better. The fact that linebackers don't make good home run hitters is because pure strength isn't the only component to hitting a baseball.
Posted on 2/17/14 at 6:32 pm to LSURussian
quote:
Did either of them ever test positive for PED's?
Has Belle ever admitted it or been accused by anyone as credible as a supplier?
Posted on 2/17/14 at 6:41 pm to Filmat11
quote:
The point is if you then give the scratch golfer a titanium driver, he becomes better.
And if you give the titanium driver to a 15 handicapper with a nasty hook, his drives just go deeper into the rough. Any golfer will tell you that they will give up distance for accuracy. When I played and before that, weightlifting was discouraged because the prevailing attitude was that large upper muscles affected a hitters swing. The only accepted strength training was for wrists and forearms. Shoulder's, biceps and chest muscles do not generate bat speed.
Posted on 2/17/14 at 6:57 pm to LSU82BILL
Well, then it's settled. The use of steroids and weightlifting have no impact on home runs. It's all just congress and the media. The point is, that the scratch golfer isn't giving up anything by gaining distance. We're not talking about baseball players that can't hit without steroids. I'm sure Barry Bonds was going to become the greatest home run hitter of all time without HGH/Steroids...
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