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2013 Saint Draft Prospects Review
Posted on 1/30/14 at 12:08 pm
Posted on 1/30/14 at 12:08 pm
There has been much review of Jarvis Jones vs. Kenny Vaccaro. Thank you Saints for knowing more than us.
I came across another. I would call Bacarri Rambo one of the top 10 most wanted players by ST last draft. This rotoworld blurb caught my eye...
ESPN Redskins blogger John Keim does not consider S Bacarri Rambo a lock for the 2014 roster.
Rambo started in Week 1, a sign of how desperate the Redskins were in the secondary. He was benched by Week 3 and proceeded to spend the majority of the season as a third or fourth safety. Rambo, a sixth-round pick in 2013, will have to make a mark as a special teamer in camp. He showed no real signs of being a starter at free safety
Hey Mickey, thanks on another one!
A 2009 one for lagniappe-
NFL Network's Ian Rapoport reports the Broncos aren't expected to be able to re-sign impending free agent Knowshon Moreno.
Moreno is coming off a career year in which he rushed for 1,038 yards and ten touchdowns, while averaging 4.3 YPC. He also caught 60 balls for 548 yards and three additional scores. Moreno wasn't much of a player before Peyton Manning got to town, as he had been relegated to scout team at one point. He's been able to run against soft fronts due to the Broncos' lethal aerial attack. Moreno is a prime candidate to be vastly overpaid this offseason.
---there was some heavy table pounding for him here in '09. One guy (something Pelican?)was ready to offer his first born betting he was the next Adrian Peterson. Not a perfect example cuz he was gone 2 picks before the Saints but still noteworthy versus strong, if not popular, opinion.
I came across another. I would call Bacarri Rambo one of the top 10 most wanted players by ST last draft. This rotoworld blurb caught my eye...
ESPN Redskins blogger John Keim does not consider S Bacarri Rambo a lock for the 2014 roster.
Rambo started in Week 1, a sign of how desperate the Redskins were in the secondary. He was benched by Week 3 and proceeded to spend the majority of the season as a third or fourth safety. Rambo, a sixth-round pick in 2013, will have to make a mark as a special teamer in camp. He showed no real signs of being a starter at free safety
Hey Mickey, thanks on another one!
A 2009 one for lagniappe-
NFL Network's Ian Rapoport reports the Broncos aren't expected to be able to re-sign impending free agent Knowshon Moreno.
Moreno is coming off a career year in which he rushed for 1,038 yards and ten touchdowns, while averaging 4.3 YPC. He also caught 60 balls for 548 yards and three additional scores. Moreno wasn't much of a player before Peyton Manning got to town, as he had been relegated to scout team at one point. He's been able to run against soft fronts due to the Broncos' lethal aerial attack. Moreno is a prime candidate to be vastly overpaid this offseason.
---there was some heavy table pounding for him here in '09. One guy (something Pelican?)was ready to offer his first born betting he was the next Adrian Peterson. Not a perfect example cuz he was gone 2 picks before the Saints but still noteworthy versus strong, if not popular, opinion.
This post was edited on 1/30/14 at 12:19 pm
6
Posted on 1/30/14 at 12:16 pm to blueslover
Yeah I've eaten some big time crow over that one. Not so much that I didn't want Kenny, but because I just thought Jones was such a fit.
Posted on 1/30/14 at 12:25 pm to blueslover
I liked Rambo. Still do. I'd like the Saints to bring him in as a replacement if we can't sign Jenkins.
Yeah, that one guy thought K. Moreno was Barry Sanders and Earl Campbell combined. I still like Rashard Jennings.
Yeah, that one guy thought K. Moreno was Barry Sanders and Earl Campbell combined. I still like Rashard Jennings.
Posted on 1/30/14 at 12:31 pm to Brettesaurus Rex
Others wanted most on ST Big Board
Shariff Floyd- had a solid year in rotation, prolly a truer 4-3DT star
Ogletree- He was credited with 117 tackles on NFL.com. Ogletree also forced a whopping six fumbles and had ten pass breakups, though he graded out poorly in Pro Football Focus' 4-3 outside linebacker ratings.
Xavier Rhodes- injuries were more his story than performance, on the injury report 7 weeks
Bjoern Werner- rotoworld summary: Werner, the No. 24 overall pick in last April's draft, appeared in 15 games as a rookie, making one start. He played just 352 defensive snaps and recorded 18 tackles and 2.5 sacks. GM Ryan Grigson stressed that Werner needs to get in the weight room. With Erik Walden and Robert Mathis under contract for 2014, Werner will likely be a rotational player again in his second season.
Shariff Floyd- had a solid year in rotation, prolly a truer 4-3DT star
Ogletree- He was credited with 117 tackles on NFL.com. Ogletree also forced a whopping six fumbles and had ten pass breakups, though he graded out poorly in Pro Football Focus' 4-3 outside linebacker ratings.
Xavier Rhodes- injuries were more his story than performance, on the injury report 7 weeks
Bjoern Werner- rotoworld summary: Werner, the No. 24 overall pick in last April's draft, appeared in 15 games as a rookie, making one start. He played just 352 defensive snaps and recorded 18 tackles and 2.5 sacks. GM Ryan Grigson stressed that Werner needs to get in the weight room. With Erik Walden and Robert Mathis under contract for 2014, Werner will likely be a rotational player again in his second season.
Posted on 1/30/14 at 1:02 pm to blueslover
shocking that some mocks had werner going top 10 iirc
Posted on 1/30/14 at 2:16 pm to blueslover
quote:
Werner will likely be a rotational player again in his second season.
quote:
shocking that some mocks had werner going top 10 iirc
Yeah seeing Werner a couple of times on TV...dude is garbage. Can already tell he'll suck.
Posted on 1/30/14 at 2:34 pm to blueslover
I gotta say the only guy I saw being pounded for that we had a chance to get that would have been near Vaccaro's level was Reid.
But then you have to think that Reid is in a proven system with some freaks of nature playing around him(especially up front).
Vaccaro came into a system that were just putting together with a bunch of guys most people thought had little or no talent.
And honestly besides Jordan, Galette, and Lewis I'm not sure any of our other defensive players deserved to be called All Pro(or Pro Bowl for that matter, though Vaccaro and Hicks are close).
Short version: Reid's teammates could pick up his slack, while Vaccaro had to pick up some of his teammates' slack. Imo, Vaccaro was the right choice.
But then you have to think that Reid is in a proven system with some freaks of nature playing around him(especially up front).
Vaccaro came into a system that were just putting together with a bunch of guys most people thought had little or no talent.
And honestly besides Jordan, Galette, and Lewis I'm not sure any of our other defensive players deserved to be called All Pro(or Pro Bowl for that matter, though Vaccaro and Hicks are close).
Short version: Reid's teammates could pick up his slack, while Vaccaro had to pick up some of his teammates' slack. Imo, Vaccaro was the right choice.
Posted on 1/30/14 at 4:02 pm to blueslover
quote:
Bjoern Werner-
Being completely honest, before we knew we were going to run a 3-4 I wanted him BAD. Watching his tape, I felt like he was going to be a Watt-esque player: completely dominant. I could not have been much more wrong.
Posted on 1/31/14 at 8:35 am to blueslover
quote:It is kind of funny how many people are writing off Jones and knighting Vaccaro. They both just came off their rookie season and Vaccaro's arrow isn't necessarily pointing up right now. Jones was not outstanding but rookies rarely make huge contribution in Pitt's defense. Overall it looks like a very strong class and the only person who just completely pissed away their rookie year was Dee Milliner, and even he is still a rookie.
Jarvis Jones vs. Kenny Vaccaro. Thank you Saints for knowing more than us.
Posted on 1/31/14 at 10:21 am to Sanchito
quote:
Vaccaro's arrow isn't necessarily pointing up right now
What the frick does that mean? He was getting better every week before he was injured.
Posted on 1/31/14 at 10:23 am to Sanchito
quote:
Vaccaro's arrow isn't necessarily pointing up right now.
Posted on 1/31/14 at 10:40 am to geauxtigers87
Trying to figure that one myself. Top 3 DROY contender and the arrow isn't up?
Dee Miliner
now that is almost threadworthy
for what? for those who think it is as easy as peddle Jimmy Graham off for a a couple of draft picks and replace him. The Jets got the #1 Cb for Revis and he was benched several times.
There is high risk in getting rid of any player that is dominant at the NFL level. If ya think down those lines just don't pencil a replacement without thinking or understanding the risk.
Dee Miliner
now that is almost threadworthy
for what? for those who think it is as easy as peddle Jimmy Graham off for a a couple of draft picks and replace him. The Jets got the #1 Cb for Revis and he was benched several times.
There is high risk in getting rid of any player that is dominant at the NFL level. If ya think down those lines just don't pencil a replacement without thinking or understanding the risk.
Posted on 1/31/14 at 12:37 pm to Rand AlThor
quote:
Vaccaro's arrow isn't necessarily pointing up right now.
Do you watch Saints games?
Posted on 1/31/14 at 1:24 pm to Isaid
I dont think the hindsight thing works here fully.
Will Smith was a penciled in starting outside linebacker for us before the season. All of us knew how awful that would have turned out.
We knew Junior had some serious playmaking ability but wondered how he would see the field based on the relecutance by the FO to use him more last year while showing us that all he does is find ways into opposing backfields.
Our saving grace was Butler a player very few had ever seen play much less start. OLB was a major need.
Based on investment from a money and pick value, you had a 1st rounder in Jenkins and pro bowl money invested in Harper. Safety seemed like a luxury need based off conventional thinking...not that it wasnt needed but due to missing picks could we afford to have invested so much just so 1 of those guys could ride on the bench becuase nobody plays 3 safeties at once...lol
Having seen it all play out we got the best safety in the draft. Eric Reid plays with Bowman, Aldon, Willis, and Whitner among others...i might look decent on that D too.
scout team BOW!!! undrafted gems won us a superbowl and just gave us 1 very promising young D.
Will Smith was a penciled in starting outside linebacker for us before the season. All of us knew how awful that would have turned out.
We knew Junior had some serious playmaking ability but wondered how he would see the field based on the relecutance by the FO to use him more last year while showing us that all he does is find ways into opposing backfields.
Our saving grace was Butler a player very few had ever seen play much less start. OLB was a major need.
Based on investment from a money and pick value, you had a 1st rounder in Jenkins and pro bowl money invested in Harper. Safety seemed like a luxury need based off conventional thinking...not that it wasnt needed but due to missing picks could we afford to have invested so much just so 1 of those guys could ride on the bench becuase nobody plays 3 safeties at once...lol
Having seen it all play out we got the best safety in the draft. Eric Reid plays with Bowman, Aldon, Willis, and Whitner among others...i might look decent on that D too.
scout team BOW!!! undrafted gems won us a superbowl and just gave us 1 very promising young D.
Posted on 1/31/14 at 1:54 pm to illuminatic
quote:He was injured. Not everyone comes back as the player they were before. Not denying what he had done either.
He was getting better every week before he was injured.
Posted on 1/31/14 at 2:05 pm to Sanchito
He fractured a bone.
There's no reason to think this will impact future performance.
There's no reason to think this will impact future performance.
Posted on 1/31/14 at 4:55 pm to Sanchito
quote:
He was injured. Not everyone comes back as the player they were before
From knee injuries. An ankle break isn't going to derail his career unless it was so gruesome his foot was dangling and blood was pouring out.
And Jones was benched in favor of someone who had been a backup/spot starter. And despite still getting 8 starts, the "sack master" only had 1 sack and 0 turnovers.
And this is on a defense with plenty of good/great players in a proven system(much like the situation Reid is in). For him to fall so flat confirms everything that was said about his work ethic.
This is why you have so many busts. In college some guys can just go out and use their superior natural ability and instincts to overpower inferior competition without having to put forth much effort in practice.
Not to mention some teams have "super" offenses or defenses where they have a bunch of great athletes that make each other look better than they are. It's easy to look great playing with great players(again see Reid).
Meanwhile other guys bust their arse and make themselves better through that hard work. And you can especially tell who those guys are if they stand out on a bad unit.
So tell me which one was Jones and which one was Vaccaro?
Posted on 1/31/14 at 5:50 pm to blueslover
I was 50-50 on my UGA evaluations. I thought Rambo was overrated and would be a bust, just didn't think he had the coverage skills and wanted no part of him. Check.
I also thought Ogletree was undersized and wouldn't be able to handle the pounding at this level. Fail haha.
Of the others:
-Didn't want Floyd. I said from the beginning if you got him to play 100% you might be getting the top player in the draft (and I still believe that), but I was terribly worried about his inconsistency and effort issues. With our DL, it's probably ok we didn't get him.
-Wanted Rhodes bad. I still think he could turn into a lockdown CB. The way we use Vaccaro could make him more valuable in the long run, but I think we would have been very well-off with Rhodes as well.
-Wanted Werner at first, but then his combine and workout reports started coming out and I started doubting his athleticism. Wanted no part of him by the time draft day rolled around. The FSU DL I really wanted was actually Tank Carradine. Haven't really followed him since the Draft, but I thought he was a guy we could get cheap coming off the injury with huge potential. San Fran picked him higher than I expected though.
I also thought Ogletree was undersized and wouldn't be able to handle the pounding at this level. Fail haha.
Of the others:
-Didn't want Floyd. I said from the beginning if you got him to play 100% you might be getting the top player in the draft (and I still believe that), but I was terribly worried about his inconsistency and effort issues. With our DL, it's probably ok we didn't get him.
-Wanted Rhodes bad. I still think he could turn into a lockdown CB. The way we use Vaccaro could make him more valuable in the long run, but I think we would have been very well-off with Rhodes as well.
-Wanted Werner at first, but then his combine and workout reports started coming out and I started doubting his athleticism. Wanted no part of him by the time draft day rolled around. The FSU DL I really wanted was actually Tank Carradine. Haven't really followed him since the Draft, but I thought he was a guy we could get cheap coming off the injury with huge potential. San Fran picked him higher than I expected though.
Posted on 1/31/14 at 6:47 pm to blueslover
Yeah im glad the saints didnt listen to me and pick Jones
Didnt Star L. go right before us? I wonder Vaccaro was higher on their board than him.
Didnt Star L. go right before us? I wonder Vaccaro was higher on their board than him.
Posted on 1/31/14 at 6:57 pm to Cajun Invasion
I think it was said that they had 5 players in mind they thought could be there, and there were 3 left when they picked(with Jones being specifically said as not being one of them).
I'd have to think Star was on their radar and if he wasn't in the 5 it would only be because they had him going much higher.
Also a note on Jones and what I was talking about earlier. Jones was benched(I definitely remember reading all about that) and the only reason he started 8 games is because an injury to Woodley forced him back into the starting lineup.
LINK
Looking at that article, if the Steelers keep Woodley and resign Worilds I think that reflects very negatively on Jones' future. They are $10 mil over the cap and if they find a way to keep both it's only because they lack confidence in Jones(because the money is saying go younger and cheaper).
I'd have to think Star was on their radar and if he wasn't in the 5 it would only be because they had him going much higher.
Also a note on Jones and what I was talking about earlier. Jones was benched(I definitely remember reading all about that) and the only reason he started 8 games is because an injury to Woodley forced him back into the starting lineup.
LINK
Looking at that article, if the Steelers keep Woodley and resign Worilds I think that reflects very negatively on Jones' future. They are $10 mil over the cap and if they find a way to keep both it's only because they lack confidence in Jones(because the money is saying go younger and cheaper).
This post was edited on 1/31/14 at 6:58 pm
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