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How important is a heavy backfield rotation?
Posted on 1/17/14 at 10:49 am
Posted on 1/17/14 at 10:49 am
I understand if your talent pool is evenly spread out and you give the ball to 3 different backs over the course of the year.
But if you have elite talent on the roster and not giving him his due touches, i think you are doing your team injustice.
These are 19-20 year old kids mostly whose bodies are not breaking down over the course of a 12 game season. They normally have a shelf life of 1 or 2 or 3 years of production at their peak.
Do we owe it to our recruits/players to give them their abundance amount of touches to increase their stats and NFL value or do we owe it to our players to spread the touches more evenly and not put the wear and tear on their college careers? Do we owe the backups touches cause they work hard too because it surely doesn't work that way with most of the other positions on the field.
But if you have elite talent on the roster and not giving him his due touches, i think you are doing your team injustice.
These are 19-20 year old kids mostly whose bodies are not breaking down over the course of a 12 game season. They normally have a shelf life of 1 or 2 or 3 years of production at their peak.
Do we owe it to our recruits/players to give them their abundance amount of touches to increase their stats and NFL value or do we owe it to our players to spread the touches more evenly and not put the wear and tear on their college careers? Do we owe the backups touches cause they work hard too because it surely doesn't work that way with most of the other positions on the field.
8
Posted on 1/17/14 at 10:52 am to Chad504boy
Our backup running back put up more yards per carry than Jeremy Hill did. I don't think there is any "injustice" to the team.
Posted on 1/17/14 at 10:52 am to Chad504boy
They'd probably want 30 carries a game.
Posted on 1/17/14 at 11:03 am to Gumb0
I think it would be in the best interest of the college RB to NOT avg more than 20 carries per game. NFL definitely factors "wear and tear" when picking RBs.
Posted on 1/17/14 at 11:11 am to Chad504boy
quote:
because it surely doesn't work that way with most of the other positions on the field.
RB is different from every other position on the field. Can you not see this? If not, there is no point in discussing this further.
Posted on 1/17/14 at 11:16 am to Chad504boy
Don't want to see a back pulled from the field when he is in the zone and racking up yards on his own but I hope I never see a back at LSU run like a dog the way Lattimore was done.
Posted on 1/17/14 at 11:39 am to Chad504boy
There's not a single answer to that question.
Several factors, including number of running backs, the individual styles of play, the emphasis of the running game and whether it's a power running game or if the running game is an extension of the passing game, etc... are all factors that influence how that could be answered.
My own opinions are that:
1) You should give the main 2 or 3 backs as many carries as you can to give them the opportunity to showcase their talents... but within the context of the gameplan, which might be different from week to week. It is a team sport, first and foremost, and the goal is always to win, which sometimes means adjustments that give a few less carries to star running back from time to time.
2) If you have a big lead, start playing the backups to avoid injury to the starters and give the backups their opportunity to show what they can do. But if the game is tight towards the end, play the best players that give you a chance to win.
3) Play the hot hand. Some days, some players have it, whether it's a function of them being on, or the defense being better prepared to defend against the plays another player tends to run. The goal is to win, so if one back is having more success than another, adjust the playcalling to exploit the advantage.
These are all general philosophies. Maybe it means one game back A gets 20 carries and backs B & C get share 15 carries; the next game, maybe back A gets 12 carries, B gets 10 carries and C gets 6.
A back that always gets 20-30 carries a game is not necessarily more likely to get drafted higher than one who gets fewer carries. Hill was definitely not overworked and some are speculating he might be the first back taken, so keeping him somewhat fresh worked to his benefit.
Several factors, including number of running backs, the individual styles of play, the emphasis of the running game and whether it's a power running game or if the running game is an extension of the passing game, etc... are all factors that influence how that could be answered.
My own opinions are that:
1) You should give the main 2 or 3 backs as many carries as you can to give them the opportunity to showcase their talents... but within the context of the gameplan, which might be different from week to week. It is a team sport, first and foremost, and the goal is always to win, which sometimes means adjustments that give a few less carries to star running back from time to time.
2) If you have a big lead, start playing the backups to avoid injury to the starters and give the backups their opportunity to show what they can do. But if the game is tight towards the end, play the best players that give you a chance to win.
3) Play the hot hand. Some days, some players have it, whether it's a function of them being on, or the defense being better prepared to defend against the plays another player tends to run. The goal is to win, so if one back is having more success than another, adjust the playcalling to exploit the advantage.
These are all general philosophies. Maybe it means one game back A gets 20 carries and backs B & C get share 15 carries; the next game, maybe back A gets 12 carries, B gets 10 carries and C gets 6.
A back that always gets 20-30 carries a game is not necessarily more likely to get drafted higher than one who gets fewer carries. Hill was definitely not overworked and some are speculating he might be the first back taken, so keeping him somewhat fresh worked to his benefit.
Posted on 1/17/14 at 12:41 pm to Chad504boy
2 back rotation with a change of pace back is good enough for any program. Just rotating 4-5 RBs for the hell of it still confuses me. Ridley ran the ball 249 times his last year after tearing an acl two years prior. He will be entering into his 4th year next year, and has actually gotten more shifty.
The lead back does fine, but rotating all of the back ups is unnecessary.
The lead back does fine, but rotating all of the back ups is unnecessary.
Posted on 1/17/14 at 12:42 pm to Chad504boy
quote:
But if you have elite talent on the roster and not giving him his due touches, i think you are doing your team injustice.
When has this happened?
Posted on 1/17/14 at 12:53 pm to STEVED00
quote:
I think it would be in the best interest of the college RB to NOT avg more than 20 carries per game. NFL definitely factors "wear and tear" when picking RBs.
Montee Ball, Le'veon Bell, and LaMichael James say you need to do research.
Trent Richardson, Doug Martin, David Wilson, all ran the ball between 260-300 their draft years.
Posted on 1/17/14 at 1:18 pm to Datbayoubengal
When you have several backs that are close to equal ability, I have no issue with the "fresh legs" approach. In this case, no need to run a back into the ground when his backup can come in and your offense doesn't lose anything.
That is why I'm not a big fan of one-dimensional backs, because it gives the offense too many tendencies.
I am not sure if the OP is taking a shot at CLM, but I think he has done a pretty good job of establishing a rotation and playing the hot hand while avoiding tendencies...at least he did this past season. If you look at the distribution of carries, our best back (Hill) still carried a heavier load than the rest, but the offense didn't suffer when he was on the sideline.
I would be willing to bet, if we ever come across that elite back that is head and shoulders above everyone else on the roster (possibly Fournette will be that guy) that he will get the majority of the snaps.
That is why I'm not a big fan of one-dimensional backs, because it gives the offense too many tendencies.
I am not sure if the OP is taking a shot at CLM, but I think he has done a pretty good job of establishing a rotation and playing the hot hand while avoiding tendencies...at least he did this past season. If you look at the distribution of carries, our best back (Hill) still carried a heavier load than the rest, but the offense didn't suffer when he was on the sideline.
I would be willing to bet, if we ever come across that elite back that is head and shoulders above everyone else on the roster (possibly Fournette will be that guy) that he will get the majority of the snaps.
Posted on 1/17/14 at 1:37 pm to sportsfan
Couple things here:
A) This is an intellectual discussion, some people are doing great, others not so much.
B) I have in no way in the OP said that this has been a problem in the past.
C) I feel like some of you are dangling the bait out there for me to nibble on so i'll do the thread a favor and nibble back.
Jeremy Hill is the best back on this team bar none. He barely had the minimum amount of carries needed for the LSU season stat book (200). Yes Magee had a terrific year, had 2nd most rushing attempts. But then we still went out and gave Blue and HIllard close to 140 attempts of their touches. I'd say half of those touches should have went to more Hill.
Another note about Magee, if you take out his games against Kent St and Furman bc i mean they are Kent St and Furman and you also do the same for Hill.
Hill then averaged 6.24 yards a carry the rest of his schedule.
Magee averaged 5.94 yards a carry.
But this thread was not posted with the intent of bashing the past but more with the intent of the future with having such a superior back like Fournette on the roster.
A) This is an intellectual discussion, some people are doing great, others not so much.
B) I have in no way in the OP said that this has been a problem in the past.
C) I feel like some of you are dangling the bait out there for me to nibble on so i'll do the thread a favor and nibble back.
Jeremy Hill is the best back on this team bar none. He barely had the minimum amount of carries needed for the LSU season stat book (200). Yes Magee had a terrific year, had 2nd most rushing attempts. But then we still went out and gave Blue and HIllard close to 140 attempts of their touches. I'd say half of those touches should have went to more Hill.
Another note about Magee, if you take out his games against Kent St and Furman bc i mean they are Kent St and Furman and you also do the same for Hill.
Hill then averaged 6.24 yards a carry the rest of his schedule.
Magee averaged 5.94 yards a carry.
But this thread was not posted with the intent of bashing the past but more with the intent of the future with having such a superior back like Fournette on the roster.
This post was edited on 1/17/14 at 1:38 pm
Posted on 1/17/14 at 2:23 pm to Chad504boy
quote:
But then we still went out and gave Blue and HIllard close to 140 attempts of their touches
Think about this though...75 of those touches came against TCU (Hill suspended), Kent St., Furman, and Miss. St. (blowout games). No need for Hill to touch it more than 15 times in those ball games IMO.
In the bigger games, the distribution is alot different:
Auburn: Hill - 25 carries, Blue and Hilliard combined 8
Georgia: Hill - 21, Blue and Hilliard combined 4
Florida: Hill - 19, Blue and Hilliard combined 7
Alabama: Hill - 13, Blue and Hilliard combined 1
Arkansas: Hill - 20, Blue and Hilliard combined 2
Iowa: Hill 28, Blue and Hilliard combined 8
Ole Miss and A&M are the only close games where Hill didn't get the bulk of the carries, but other guys had the hotter hand on those days.
Against Ole Miss, Hill was averaging 4.0 yards a carry while Hilliard averaged 5.3
Against A&M, Magee went off and the gameplan was obviously to run the ball a lot and keep the ball out of Manziel's hands. LSU ran it 55 times that game and the carries were pretty evenly distributed between all 4 backs, but can't argue with the final result there.
Bottom line, stats are very objective and depends on how you look at them. Could Hill have touched it more? Absolutely. Did the fact that he only had 203 carries this season cost us a game? IMO, No
Posted on 1/17/14 at 2:32 pm to Chad504boy
quote:
Do we owe it to our recruits/players to give them their abundance amount of touches to increase their stats and NFL value or do we owe it to our players to spread the touches more evenly and not put the wear and tear on their college careers? Do we owe the backups touches cause they work hard too because it surely doesn't work that way with most of the other positions on the field.
These are all questions that IMO make coaching college football a little different from pros. In college, you have several kids at every position fighting to make it to the pros. I don't know if a coach "owes" them persay, but at the same time, he has to appease them to a certain extent (although not at the expense of a win). Otherwise, guys like Blue and Hilliard would have transferred a long time ago.
In the pros, you get paid whether you touch the ball or not. I'm sure no one wants to ride the pine at any level, but it's more of a business decision at the next level.
Posted on 1/17/14 at 3:01 pm to Datbayoubengal
quote:
Montee Ball, Le'veon Bell, and LaMichael James say you need to do research.
Trent Richardson, Doug Martin, David Wilson, all ran the ball between 260-300 their draft years.
Not that I disagree but more than half of those RBs havent really done shite in the NFL yet.
Posted on 1/17/14 at 3:39 pm to Dr. Shultz
quote:
Not that I disagree but more than half of those RBs havent really done shite in the NFL yet.
He said
quote:
NFL definitely factors "wear and tear" when picking RBs
I said
quote:
Montee Ball, Le'veon Bell, and LaMichael James say you need to do research.
Trent Richardson, Doug Martin, David Wilson, all ran the ball between 260-300 their draft years.
Every back I listed went in the top two rounds the last two years. Three in the first round alone.
I see Fournette leading with the most carries, but Magee starts early.
Fournette 175
Magee 160
Hilliard 90
Jennings 80
Williams 25
Rest 15
Posted on 1/17/14 at 4:03 pm to Datbayoubengal
Neighbors should get more than 15 no?
This post was edited on 1/17/14 at 4:04 pm
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