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Message
need resume advice for entry level energy trading
Posted on 1/15/14 at 8:12 pm
Posted on 1/15/14 at 8:12 pm
So I put myself through college at UT, but I have several gaps in my transcript due to taking two different semesters off to work as a pharmacy technician to try to avoid taking on too much student loan debt, in addition to changing majors halfway through. Im one Spanish credit away from graduating with a major in econ and a minor in business with a 3.4 gpa.
My credentials out of high school were impeccable, 4.4 gpa with a 1450 sat and plenty of extracurriculars and sports. I actually had a full naval scholarship to either rice or tulane but turned it down because I really didnt think i'd be a good fit for the military, so I took basics at a juco to save Money, then transferred in to ut.
My main question is about whether or not to include my background as a semiprofessional poker player in my resume. You wouldn't believe how much the game can teach you if you want to win consistently. Discipline, patience, emotional self control, game theory, mental math, reductive reasoning, the psychological aspect, etc etc.
I believe a lot of that will translate very well to energy trading, but if recruiters dont play or know much about poker they might view such experience as a vice more than an advantage.
Ive made significantly more money from poker than I ever did waiting tables or as a pharmacy tech. Unfortunately I'm primarily a pot limit Omaha cash game specialist, which makes it kind of impossible to verify my success, but I do have a few live omaha and holdem tournament wins that can be verified online. I'm probably one of, if not the most feared holdem and Omaha cash game players in the Austin poker scene, that a lot of local businessmen (recreational players) can testify to.
So do I take this angle on my resume, or do I play it safe and just go on my standard application credentials?
My credentials out of high school were impeccable, 4.4 gpa with a 1450 sat and plenty of extracurriculars and sports. I actually had a full naval scholarship to either rice or tulane but turned it down because I really didnt think i'd be a good fit for the military, so I took basics at a juco to save Money, then transferred in to ut.
My main question is about whether or not to include my background as a semiprofessional poker player in my resume. You wouldn't believe how much the game can teach you if you want to win consistently. Discipline, patience, emotional self control, game theory, mental math, reductive reasoning, the psychological aspect, etc etc.
I believe a lot of that will translate very well to energy trading, but if recruiters dont play or know much about poker they might view such experience as a vice more than an advantage.
Ive made significantly more money from poker than I ever did waiting tables or as a pharmacy tech. Unfortunately I'm primarily a pot limit Omaha cash game specialist, which makes it kind of impossible to verify my success, but I do have a few live omaha and holdem tournament wins that can be verified online. I'm probably one of, if not the most feared holdem and Omaha cash game players in the Austin poker scene, that a lot of local businessmen (recreational players) can testify to.
So do I take this angle on my resume, or do I play it safe and just go on my standard application credentials?
This post was edited on 1/15/14 at 9:44 pm
7
Posted on 1/15/14 at 8:13 pm to el duderino III
I would list it as a hobby/extracurricular
Posted on 1/15/14 at 8:14 pm to el duderino III
If you're so good at poker why not just do that?
Posted on 1/15/14 at 8:40 pm to el duderino III
Id leave off your a commy, just saying.
Posted on 1/15/14 at 8:46 pm to TejasPete
quote:
If you're so good at poker why not just do that?
Posted on 1/15/14 at 9:08 pm to el duderino III
So to clarify, your wanting advice on whether or not to mention that you are a very talented poker player on a résumé that you will be submitting for an entry level trading position?
Do you think your street cred on the poker scene will offset your lack of experience for an entry level position?
Do you think your street cred on the poker scene will offset your lack of experience for an entry level position?
Posted on 1/15/14 at 9:09 pm to RebelOP
You incorporate poker into an interview question, not on a resume....ANYWHERE
Posted on 1/15/14 at 9:11 pm to el duderino III
Oddly enough I also graduated from UT (lived at Jester West for three years) and paid a fair amount of tuition through poker winnings. This was back in the late 80's though, I haven't played there since 1990 or thereabouts. But I had the same questions at the time.
If I were applying for such a job today, I'd do it but maybe not expect much return until you reach the interview stage. Ultimately what worked best for me back then (and keep in mind that it was 25 years ago) was to mention it early in the interview during the "get to know you" phase. I didn't realize this at the time but in retrospect I think putting it on the resume didn't really help because the people who decide whether you get an interview work in HR. They are not traders. The people who interview you probably are and may wonder if you're a good candidate if you don't mention it during the interview.
But I suspect it wouldn't hurt either, HR may be more clued in these days and at least wouldn't have a problem with it.
BTW your sig pic is pretty nice, Antonius played the board perfectly.
If I were applying for such a job today, I'd do it but maybe not expect much return until you reach the interview stage. Ultimately what worked best for me back then (and keep in mind that it was 25 years ago) was to mention it early in the interview during the "get to know you" phase. I didn't realize this at the time but in retrospect I think putting it on the resume didn't really help because the people who decide whether you get an interview work in HR. They are not traders. The people who interview you probably are and may wonder if you're a good candidate if you don't mention it during the interview.
But I suspect it wouldn't hurt either, HR may be more clued in these days and at least wouldn't have a problem with it.
BTW your sig pic is pretty nice, Antonius played the board perfectly.
Posted on 1/15/14 at 9:11 pm to el duderino III
quote:
pot limit Omaha cash game specialist
Not much to add to this thread other than I LOVE Omaha hi/lo pot limit. I haven't played in years because of the online poker scene issues the past several years.
Posted on 1/15/14 at 9:17 pm to GREENHEAD22
quote:that was sarcasm towards the whole i support equality facebook fad with the equal sign as peoples profile pic. I now realize it's too old to be relevant lol
Id leave off your a commy, just saying.
Posted on 1/15/14 at 9:18 pm to el duderino III
quote:
if recruiters dont play or know much about poker they might view such experience as a vice more than an advantage.
I should add that most trading desks specifically look for people who play something competitively. The big problem IMHO will be getting past HR, but if you can get the interview you absolutely should bring it up and talk poker, whoever interviews you probably logs into twoplustwo himself regularly.
HR does not, but they get marching orders on what to look for and will likely have no problem with it.
IMHO, of course.
Posted on 1/15/14 at 9:23 pm to foshizzle
I don't have an answer for you. But if you are still on campus/just graduated you should try and make some connections through OCR with alumni and ask them. I imagine they would be very receptive.
Posted on 1/15/14 at 9:28 pm to TejasPete
quote:after you've played about 2 million hands, you've seen every situation, played every type of opponent, etc, it tends to get boring. Nowadays I only enjoy the game if im playing guys capable of thinking at a very high level. If I wanted to, I could move to houston and milk the hundreds of whales there and probably make 40-80k this year, depending how well I run. Houston has some massive PLO games. The problem is, the longer I wait after graduation, the more suspicious it becomes for employers as to why it's been so long since I graduated and havent gotten a real job.
If you're so good at poker why not just do that?
Also, poker can be incredibly stressful, there are no benefits, no backup career, etc. The saying, "it's a really hard way to make an easy living" could not be more true. Plus if I can achieve a comparable level of success in finance, I'm fairly positive I can make a hell of a lot more.
Posted on 1/15/14 at 9:31 pm to el duderino III
So the consensus seems to be, leave it completely off the resume but definitely talk about it in the interview?
Posted on 1/15/14 at 9:39 pm to el duderino III
quote:
after you've played about 2 million hands, you've seen every situation, played every type of opponent, etc, it tends to get boring.
This. Amazing but true.
quote:
the longer I wait after graduation, the more suspicious it becomes for employers as to why it's been so long since I graduated and havent gotten a real job.
quote:
there are no benefits, no backup career, etc. The saying, "it's a really hard way to make an easy living" could not be more true. Plus if I can achieve a comparable level of success in finance, I'm fairly positive I can make a hell of a lot more.
And also this.
I used to play with a guy who also specialized in PLO and was much better than me, better enough that he decided after graduation to move to LV and give it a shot.
Two years later his conclusion was that he was playing insane hours grinding down inferior opponents for about $40K annually. That's an okay living but as you mentioned there's no benefits and you work during nights and weekends mostly, he was finding it hard to socialize (i.e. get laid).
Posted on 1/15/14 at 9:42 pm to el duderino III
I'd kick your arse in poker. MEET ME ON POGO.COM AND PRE PARE URANUS
Posted on 1/15/14 at 9:54 pm to foshizzle
what do you think about energy trading vs general finance? I'm fascinated by guys like andrew hall and john arnold, guys who, at least from what I understand, made their fortunes by predicting long run macroeconomic trends. My underlying motive is to learn such things from the best, and to truly master how factors like fed policy affect such things.
Also, it seems like there are a lot of guys at the top in such firms who love poker and would see it as a major plus, so how can I arouse their interest if my basic credentials dont make it through HR? Hell Bill Perkins (I dont know if you know him but he's a rec player, was on high stakes poker and placed third in the one drop) works or worked for Centaurus energy, which would be my dream job.
Also, it seems like there are a lot of guys at the top in such firms who love poker and would see it as a major plus, so how can I arouse their interest if my basic credentials dont make it through HR? Hell Bill Perkins (I dont know if you know him but he's a rec player, was on high stakes poker and placed third in the one drop) works or worked for Centaurus energy, which would be my dream job.
Posted on 1/15/14 at 9:59 pm to foshizzle
quote:durr should have gotten the sushi
BTW your sig pic is pretty nice, Antonius played the board perfectly
Posted on 1/15/14 at 10:31 pm to el duderino III
quote:
what do you think about energy trading vs general finance?
I don't understand your question - there is no such thing as "general finance". There are many sub-specialties but you have to pick one.
quote:
it seems like there are a lot of guys at the top in such firms who love poker
That's completely true but it doesn't help you to land a job, because fund managers don't interview entry level traders.
You can get your resume past HR though, it isn't terribly complicated. Basically you have to hit the high points - decent GPA, something involving math and/or finance, no obvious spelling/grammar mistakes, that sort of thing. Certain firms recruit from preferred schools, there isn't much you can do about that although as a UT grad you might find success in Houston.
It's a crapshoot but just keep trying and someone will interview. An offer from a 5 person firm nobody has ever heard of can be a fine way to get started, that's exactly what I did and it worked out great. Once you're in the industry you'll meet people just in the ordinary course of doing business.
Posted on 1/16/14 at 12:03 am to foshizzle
what I really meant was energy specifically vs general commodities trading. Long run macroeconomics are central to trading both, correct? Basically I just want to learn how to predict LR macro trends from the best, the John Arnolds of the world. I know energy trading specifically also has a ton to do with analyzing meteorological trends, which i dont have much of a particular interest in, but i'm sure I could learn.
Am I correct that natural gas trading has more to do with weather patterns, but oil has more to do with global macroeconomic and geopolitical movements? Because I am far more interested in the latter. Politics is a second obsession of mine.
Am I correct that natural gas trading has more to do with weather patterns, but oil has more to do with global macroeconomic and geopolitical movements? Because I am far more interested in the latter. Politics is a second obsession of mine.
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