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Started By
Message
Jimmay Graham is a WR, not TE
Posted on 1/13/14 at 9:34 am
Posted on 1/13/14 at 9:34 am
LINK
I don't know the percentages, but my naked eye tells me he lines up as a WR. It also tells me he plays like a WR. I realize his official team position is TE, but realistically he is a WR. Here's the issue for me: TE is a hybrid receiver and blocker, a position that is utilized in both aspects to take advantage of circumstances. Jimmay though is riding the pine whenever we are running the ball, because he can not block. This is actually a great hinderance for the team, because, as this past game showed us, when he is not on the field it is a run play. Teams see this, know this and play accordingly.
Fair is fair. I would love for us to sign him to a TE contract, but it's not right to play him as a WR and expect him to be paid as a TE. I don't think there's much of an argument for the Saints on this one. They can show other TE's utilization all they want, but all that will do is drive the argument across the board that those unique players are actually WR's. There are still true TE's in the league, and those guys wills till get TE money. Just not Jimmay, nor should he
quote:
Under Article 9, Section 2 of the CBA, “[T]he tender will apply to the position in which the player participated in the most plays.” Thus, if Graham was lined up wide or in the slot more times than he was lined up as a tight end, he’s a receiver.
quote:
The Saints could counter by arguing that the tight end position has changed in recent years, and that a tight end can be a tight end without lining up half the time as a tight end. To support their argument, the Saints could calculate the tight end vs. slot/wide percentages for other tight ends on other teams who ultimately were paid as tight ends, not as receivers.
I don't know the percentages, but my naked eye tells me he lines up as a WR. It also tells me he plays like a WR. I realize his official team position is TE, but realistically he is a WR. Here's the issue for me: TE is a hybrid receiver and blocker, a position that is utilized in both aspects to take advantage of circumstances. Jimmay though is riding the pine whenever we are running the ball, because he can not block. This is actually a great hinderance for the team, because, as this past game showed us, when he is not on the field it is a run play. Teams see this, know this and play accordingly.
Fair is fair. I would love for us to sign him to a TE contract, but it's not right to play him as a WR and expect him to be paid as a TE. I don't think there's much of an argument for the Saints on this one. They can show other TE's utilization all they want, but all that will do is drive the argument across the board that those unique players are actually WR's. There are still true TE's in the league, and those guys wills till get TE money. Just not Jimmay, nor should he
8
Posted on 1/13/14 at 9:37 am to Midget Death Squad
Be quite Jimmy Graham's agent.
Posted on 1/13/14 at 9:40 am to goatmilker
quote:
Be quite Jimmy Graham's agent.
when he signs, drinks are on me
Posted on 1/13/14 at 9:41 am to Midget Death Squad
I've looked Mr Jimmy Grahams agent but can't find a single WR in the history of the NFL that weighed 270lbs.
Also would say that if your client blocked better he would not be put out wide as often.
Also would say that if your client blocked better he would not be put out wide as often.
Posted on 1/13/14 at 9:44 am to Midget Death Squad
quote:
but it's not right to play him as a WR and expect him to be paid as a TE.
If you're comparing Jimmy to Dennis Pitta, Gronk, Clark, or Witten, hes the elite, best of the best.
If you're comparing Jimmy to AJ Green, or Megatron, not so much.
I think his agent should be careful with this.
Posted on 1/13/14 at 9:46 am to Midget Death Squad
Franchise him
Not worth the money when teams take him completely out of the gameplan
Not worth the money when teams take him completely out of the gameplan
Posted on 1/13/14 at 9:50 am to Midget Death Squad
This is why I am not sure it is wise to keep Graham. He is positioning himself to ask for Johnson/Fitz type money. No way in hell would I pay that for him.
Posted on 1/13/14 at 9:53 am to nicholastiger
quote:
Franchise him
His agent will want him to be tagged as a WR which will be around 11 mil this year.
Posted on 1/13/14 at 9:56 am to nicholastiger
quote:
Franchise him Not worth the money when teams take him completely out of the gameplan
This
Posted on 1/13/14 at 10:01 am to elprez00
quote:
If you're comparing Jimmy to Dennis Pitta, Gronk, Clark, or Witten, hes the elite, best of the best.
If you're comparing Jimmy to AJ Green, or Megatron, not so much
Good point, but he is in this conversation. Based on this season's ranking, he finised 13th in receptions, 15th in yards and 1st in TD's. Here is a comparison of him to top WR's this season:
AJ - 98/1426 14.6ypc 11td
Calv - 84/1492 17.8ypc 12td
Gordon - 87/1646 18.9ypc 9td
Ant Brown - 110/1499 13.6ypc 8td
DemThom - 92/1430 15.5ypc 14td
Jimmay - 86/1215 14.1ypc 16td
So compared to the top 5 wr's this season, he is somewhere within the average of all their completion stats, below their average for yards and ypc, above for TD's. I think by this he is not a "top 5 WR", but he is a top 10. I don't think he deserves WR franchise money, but he definitely deserves more than the TE one. Fair would be somewhere in between this, which is what I expect to happen. The problem is in franchise designation, and based on his utilization he is a WR. They can label him TE all they want, but if they don't use him as such then he simply isn't one.
Posted on 1/13/14 at 10:03 am to Midget Death Squad
quote:
The problem is in franchise designation, and based on his utilization he is a WR. They can label him TE all they want, but if they don't use him as such then he simply isn't one.
both sides will fight this one out.
Posted on 1/13/14 at 10:25 am to Chad504boy
quote:
both sides will fight this one out
and Jimmay will most likely win.
Posted on 1/13/14 at 10:45 am to Midget Death Squad
You are missing a key piece of this argument. We need to see what the NFL and the CBA classifies a TE and WR as. Do any of these specifically state that if a TE lines up wide, he is now considered a WR? If a TE is allowed to line up wide, then he is still a TE. An offensive lineman has to report as an eligible receiver when he lines up as a TE. A TE doesn't when he lines up wide. There is a lot of area here not covered in your argument.
Posted on 1/13/14 at 10:46 am to Midget Death Squad
I think he gets tagged as a WR/TE hybrid. Same thing Suggs got when he was tagged as a DE/OLB hybrid.
Posted on 1/13/14 at 10:46 am to iwasthere
quote:
We need to see what the NFL and the CBA classifies a TE and WR as
quote:
Under Article 9, Section 2 of the CBA, “[T]he tender will apply to the position in which the player participated in the most plays.” Thus, if Graham was lined up wide or in the slot more times than he was lined up as a tight end, he’s a receiver.
I'm just going based off of this info, but this is what the article states
Posted on 1/13/14 at 10:47 am to Midget Death Squad
quote:
I don't think there's much of an argument for the Saints on this one
I love Jimmy as much as anyone, but he completely disappeared in the second half of the season and he did NOTHING when lined up against the opposing teams top corners. That would be my argument.
If he's demanding top WR money....Well, it's been real, Jimmy.
Sainst MUST have money to resign Jordan. Top pass rusher in his prime >>>>>>>>>>> pass catching TE who didn't make any memorable plays in the biggest spots
Posted on 1/13/14 at 10:47 am to Suntiger
quote:
I think he gets tagged as a WR/TE hybrid
I believe this is the best and most likely outcome. I think this designation (or some form of it) may very well become the norm.
Posted on 1/13/14 at 10:50 am to elprez00
quote:
If you're comparing Jimmy to Dennis Pitta, Gronk, Clark, or Witten, hes the elite, best of the best. If you're comparing Jimmy to AJ Green, or Megatron, not so much. I think his agent should be careful with this.
I think you've missed the point.
The objective is to prevent the franchise tag and let Graham test the open market.
At the end of the day, on the open market he is going to get what he is worth. His "position" would be irrelevant at that point. His "position" only matters as it relates to the salary that would be required to franchise him.
Posted on 1/13/14 at 10:51 am to Midget Death Squad
I understand that article, but it leaves out key facts. A TE is allowed to line up wide. So, he is still playing within the league rules of a TE. Shoot, Roman Harper lines up in the box(like a LB) more than in coverage. He is still a S. There are a lot of positions that play all over and without knowing or stating the definition of the position, we can't just assume one side or the other.
Posted on 1/13/14 at 10:52 am to goatmilker
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