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Started By
Message
Proof we are better without Eric Gordon.
Posted on 1/3/14 at 9:49 pm
Posted on 1/3/14 at 9:49 pm
Posted on 1/3/14 at 10:09 pm to Aced
We're literally paying a guy 14.5M to make our team operate with less efficiency.
Posted on 1/3/14 at 10:46 pm to Aced
awwwwwwwww shite. now I got stats backing me up
Posted on 1/3/14 at 10:47 pm to Fearthehat0307
Eric Gordon reaching Bernie Madoff levels of thievery
Posted on 1/4/14 at 12:14 am to CecilShortsHisPants
quote:
We're literally paying a guy 14.5M to make our team operate with less efficiency.
they could pay me 1.5M and get the same results
Posted on 1/4/14 at 12:58 am to Aced
the only thing this shows is that Holiday is less efficient with Gordon on the bench. not the entire team. right?
Posted on 1/4/14 at 8:11 am to Aced
quote:
This is just getting insane. The Jrue/Evans combo is fantastic and Jrue is obviously handcuffed playing with Gordon. I understand that Gordon’s contract makes him virtually untradeable right now, but putting him on the bench is a legitimate option and one Monty MUST explore. Not only does Holiday play better with Evans, but AD does too.
Not that I find the concept hard to believe, but I'd like to see the numbers with the first 10 or so games thrown out. Jrue was playing pretty bad in the beginning and that could be skewing the results since the Jrue/Tyreke numbers are using more recent stats.
Posted on 1/4/14 at 8:56 am to TigerinATL
quote:
Not that I find the concept hard to believe, but I'd like to see the numbers with the first 10 or so games thrown out. Jrue was playing pretty bad in the beginning and that could be skewing the results since the Jrue/Tyreke numbers are using more recent stats.
That is such a lazy article. It provided no context as to why Evans/Holiday have been better than Holiday/Gordon. All it takes is a little research to debunk some of what is in the article.
For example, Gordon/Holiday have played almost half their minutes together with both Aminu and Smith. Evans/Holiday have only played 10 minutes all year with Aminu and Smith.
That's a major reason the numbers are different, but of course that's not in the article, because that doesn't fit the agenda.
Posted on 1/4/14 at 9:37 am to Aced
Nothing like some cherry picked stats to prove a point.
Posted on 1/4/14 at 10:04 am to TheSexecutioner
Gordon has taken a step back lately. It may be residual pain or limited range of motion power from the hip injury, I don't know.
I don't the above lazy or cherry-picked. It is lazy to try to debunk a comparison by assuming a single difference in associated factors actually indicates or causes a difference in results. The teammate issue is a potential limitation, and it is nothing more without more data.
Gordon may very well improve, but if you toss 3 people in a room together, two of them may have a better relationship than either one of them with the third. No biggie, no huge revelation. From the begining, this backcourt was called crowded, so this is also not a surprise or comimg from left field. Something like this, if correct, is expexted.
Now, even if the numbers are a bit off, they still provide impetus to dig for more dataamd to watch to see if the conclusions bear out going forward.
In the end, I expext Gordon to be moved. I see this as very similar to the Williams-McAllister two-step. Make it work for a year, then when a suitor is found, ship the harder-to-work with out. Gordon is making himself tradeable. Not tradeabe for gold; just tradeable in a typical market.
I see Gordon's bighest issue here as being his attitude / personality. Maybe he can adapt, but generally speaking, this is not wise to expect. He seems to play better without Davis (just my observation, I have not mined the stats, and it could just be a volume thing, not an efficiency thing). As such, a bench role may suit him, but I don't think he personality will. He needs the affirmation, and if watching the tip from court does it, so be it.
I don't the above lazy or cherry-picked. It is lazy to try to debunk a comparison by assuming a single difference in associated factors actually indicates or causes a difference in results. The teammate issue is a potential limitation, and it is nothing more without more data.
Gordon may very well improve, but if you toss 3 people in a room together, two of them may have a better relationship than either one of them with the third. No biggie, no huge revelation. From the begining, this backcourt was called crowded, so this is also not a surprise or comimg from left field. Something like this, if correct, is expexted.
Now, even if the numbers are a bit off, they still provide impetus to dig for more dataamd to watch to see if the conclusions bear out going forward.
In the end, I expext Gordon to be moved. I see this as very similar to the Williams-McAllister two-step. Make it work for a year, then when a suitor is found, ship the harder-to-work with out. Gordon is making himself tradeable. Not tradeabe for gold; just tradeable in a typical market.
I see Gordon's bighest issue here as being his attitude / personality. Maybe he can adapt, but generally speaking, this is not wise to expect. He seems to play better without Davis (just my observation, I have not mined the stats, and it could just be a volume thing, not an efficiency thing). As such, a bench role may suit him, but I don't think he personality will. He needs the affirmation, and if watching the tip from court does it, so be it.
Posted on 1/4/14 at 10:11 am to 42
Good. Bench him and piss him off so he doesn't pick up the option
This post was edited on 1/4/14 at 10:12 am
Posted on 1/4/14 at 10:16 am to droman225
Actually, I could see that if they benched him.
It is completely irrational for him, but I'd give it a 10% chance if he were just on ice, lower if he were in the Evams role and doing ok, but much higher if he were doing quite well, as he would likelt assume he would starr elsewhere.
The above presumes he is healthy from now until them, aside from the normal base-level of misses for a generic player.
It is completely irrational for him, but I'd give it a 10% chance if he were just on ice, lower if he were in the Evams role and doing ok, but much higher if he were doing quite well, as he would likelt assume he would starr elsewhere.
The above presumes he is healthy from now until them, aside from the normal base-level of misses for a generic player.
Posted on 1/4/14 at 10:18 am to droman225
quote:
Good. Bench him and piss him off so he doesn't pick up the option
The market says he should be making $7-$8 million per year. I'd be happy to be pissed off for an extra $6-$8 million.
I also don't think you can bring him off the bench unless he will flourish like Tyreke has. Propping up his trade value has to be an important consideration this season and sending him to the bench doesn't seem like a good way to go.
Posted on 1/4/14 at 10:25 am to TigerinATL
To add to what ATL said, taking this Eric Gordon drama to a positive conclusion will help the Pelicans in the player markets with both players and agents.
Punitive measures will not help that.
Balk all you want at Pelicans free ahent acquisitions, but the minimum contract gets have improved. That is one small effect of running your franchise right. Hopefully, it will get better.
Punitive measures will not help that.
Balk all you want at Pelicans free ahent acquisitions, but the minimum contract gets have improved. That is one small effect of running your franchise right. Hopefully, it will get better.
Posted on 1/4/14 at 10:30 am to TigerinATL
Not if his ego stays huge. And he thinks he is a max player. And is the missing piece to a championship team. And hates it here.
His ego swells up like his knees and he's pretty retarded. So it might just work
ETA: I don't care to trade him. I don't care to get anything back, I just want him off the team
His ego swells up like his knees and he's pretty retarded. So it might just work
ETA: I don't care to trade him. I don't care to get anything back, I just want him off the team
This post was edited on 1/4/14 at 10:31 am
Posted on 1/4/14 at 10:38 am to 42
quote:
It is lazy to try to debunk a comparison by assuming a single difference in associated factors actually indicates or causes a difference in results. The teammate issue is a potential limitation, and it is nothing more without more data.
I don't even know what to say. That isn't how the scientific method works. The burden in identifying useful variables is to prove that everything else has no effect on the variable in question.
The notion that pointing out that there might be additional factors affecting the data is lazy is ridiculous.
This post was edited on 1/4/14 at 10:39 am
Posted on 1/4/14 at 10:46 am to TheSexecutioner
quote:
I don't even know what to say. That isn't how the scientific method works. The burden in identifying useful variables is to prove that everything else has no effect on the variable in question.
The notion that pointing out that there might be additional factors affecting the data is lazy is ridiculous.
This is not how science works, actually. Inferences are made based on assumptions that only a few things matter (not every particle / wave /,field in all of spacetime). It's a silent pareto principle constantly at work.
Pointing out that other factors may be in play is reasonable, and I already said that. What was said above by another poster was that the linuep differences are a "major reason" for the differences in results, and it was stated with zero support on the correlation.
That is too strong of a statement. There are issues with the short post being discussed, but it is enough, in my opinion, to promt someone to dig deeper or to keep an eye on during games.
ETA: I did not say point out other factors is lazy. It is lazy to dismiss data or conclusions based on one difference in the data sets, especially when correlation has yet to be addressed.... Does minutes with Smith matter? Why? The proper thing is to toss out some support. I don't expext everything to be a scientific paper, and neither should others, but expecting some furthering of the discussion is appropriate... Baseless dismissals do not do this.
How about we look at the minutes the conclusions are based on. That may a fine limitation on the conclusion.
This post was edited on 1/4/14 at 10:51 am
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