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Message
Looking for help on why LSU fell off in 1974, Veer etc
Posted on 12/22/13 at 1:38 pm
Posted on 12/22/13 at 1:38 pm
So a few questions for those who know, some of us old guys
Was Carl Otis Tremble first black QB starter at LSU. Was this a big deal at the time, heard he was great athlete, but also know the offense fell part turnover wise. He had some great stats early on but then ever fell apart, was he highly recruited? When he died ( think he drowned) was he still expected to be starter? 1974 seems to be start of Macs downfall, was it switch to veer, or just did we get lazy in recruiting as 74-76 were terrible and 77-79 just minor bowls.
Was Carl Otis Tremble first black QB starter at LSU. Was this a big deal at the time, heard he was great athlete, but also know the offense fell part turnover wise. He had some great stats early on but then ever fell apart, was he highly recruited? When he died ( think he drowned) was he still expected to be starter? 1974 seems to be start of Macs downfall, was it switch to veer, or just did we get lazy in recruiting as 74-76 were terrible and 77-79 just minor bowls.
8
Posted on 12/22/13 at 2:05 pm to secman12
Charlie Mac was just way outclassed by yankee, west coast and Bama coaches. Good guy, loved the Tigers, but not a great coach.
Posted on 12/22/13 at 2:07 pm to secman12
Mike Miley decided to play baseball.
Posted on 12/22/13 at 2:12 pm to Penrod
quote:
Charlie Mac was just way outclassed by yankee, west coast and Bama coaches. Good guy, loved the Tigers, but not a great coach.
137-59-7
13 Bowl appearances (should have been 14)
The job from 1969 through 1973 (45-12-1) qualifies him as a great coach - nearly 78%.
People who do not know their own history are doomed to repeat its mistakes.
This post was edited on 12/22/13 at 2:13 pm
Posted on 12/22/13 at 2:13 pm to Jim Rockford
quote:yep
Mike Miley decided to play baseball.
Posted on 12/22/13 at 2:31 pm to Ace Midnight
How many SEC championships did LSU win in Mac's years?
Posted on 12/22/13 at 3:16 pm to Ace Midnight
This can't be a coincidence--are you the same Acemidnight who is on a board about a certain federal job position?
Posted on 12/22/13 at 3:26 pm to secman12
Mac went to the veer for Mike Miley, and Mike went pro in baseball. Mac stayed with the veer with Trimble, and LSU had more fumbles then ever before. I don't know about his recruitment.
I was tubing in the same river the day Trimble drowned.
Mac could not beat the Bear. But opposing teams feared playing the Tigers at night at home. Games started at 8pm. He might not have been great, but he was a good coach.
I was tubing in the same river the day Trimble drowned.
Mac could not beat the Bear. But opposing teams feared playing the Tigers at night at home. Games started at 8pm. He might not have been great, but he was a good coach.
This post was edited on 12/22/13 at 3:27 pm
Posted on 12/22/13 at 3:40 pm to Ace Midnight
quote:
The job from 1969 through 1973 (45-12-1) qualifies him as a great coach - nearly 78%.
By today's standards it would be debatable. But that was before scholarship limits and the greater parity we have today. Mac took over a top 5 program, and every five years he lowered it by 5. By the time he left we weren't a top 20 program. Redneck coaches, like Mac, are what held down southern football even though we had a talent advantage. When we started hiring yankees the SEC became unstoppable. BTW, Mac went about a dozen years without beating Bama.
Posted on 12/22/13 at 3:47 pm to DadFanAlum
quote:
This can't be a coincidence--are you the same Acemidnight who is on a board about a certain federal job position?
Possibly - are the avatars the same? Should be a dead giveaway.
Posted on 12/22/13 at 4:00 pm to secman12
1. Yes Carl Otis Trimble was our first black starting QB.
2. For that time it is hard to say, he was recruited hard by Mac. Recruiting wasn't as big back in those days and Mac by this time was a little slack on the recruiting side.
3. The Veer, even the LSU feeder school like mine Istrouma put the veer offense in when most team where still using the I and pro I. A few like Bama used the wishbone. The veer did not work at LSU, it worked well at my high school.
4. Yes highly recruited for Louisiana, he drowned:
"Carl Otis Trimble, on an outing with friends, had drowned in the Tchefuncte River near Madisonville. Witnesses said Trimble swam after an inner tube that had floated away and disappeared. The body was recovered by St. Tammany Parish Sheriff's deputies."
Pete Finney Times Picayune
Pictures of him in action:
LINK
Billy Broussard would play the season out at QB, our stats were like a 1950's team. Carl would finish out his career at wr at LSU
Going into 1974 Miracle Mike Miley was going to be the starting QB, he elected to play pro baseball.
It took LSU 3 years to recover as LSU was thin at near every position going into 1974.
2. For that time it is hard to say, he was recruited hard by Mac. Recruiting wasn't as big back in those days and Mac by this time was a little slack on the recruiting side.
3. The Veer, even the LSU feeder school like mine Istrouma put the veer offense in when most team where still using the I and pro I. A few like Bama used the wishbone. The veer did not work at LSU, it worked well at my high school.
4. Yes highly recruited for Louisiana, he drowned:
"Carl Otis Trimble, on an outing with friends, had drowned in the Tchefuncte River near Madisonville. Witnesses said Trimble swam after an inner tube that had floated away and disappeared. The body was recovered by St. Tammany Parish Sheriff's deputies."
Pete Finney Times Picayune
Pictures of him in action:
LINK
Billy Broussard would play the season out at QB, our stats were like a 1950's team. Carl would finish out his career at wr at LSU
Going into 1974 Miracle Mike Miley was going to be the starting QB, he elected to play pro baseball.
It took LSU 3 years to recover as LSU was thin at near every position going into 1974.
This post was edited on 12/22/13 at 4:02 pm
Posted on 12/22/13 at 4:08 pm to rrboy
quote:Take the Time Travel Worm Hole forward from the 70's to present. What's changed? Good, but not great. Going from Miley to Trimble was about like going from Mett to Rob Bolden.
Mac could not beat the Bear. But opposing teams feared playing the Tigers at night at home. Games started at 8pm. He might not have been great, but he was a good coach.
Posted on 12/22/13 at 4:10 pm to secman12
Short term answer was that they switched to the Veer to showcase the strengths of Mike Miley who then passed up his senior year to play pro baseball.
However, it was a bit deeper than that IMHO. The issues were bigger than one player.
From 1974 to Mac's retirment he only beat one team that ended the ranked in the Top 20 in any poll, an that being a team that finished No. 20.
George Bevan spoke at a Gridiron function earlier this year and he explained that Mac didn't do much recruiting, was not a stregth at all.
In his earlier years Athletic Director Jim Corbett and former Governor John McKiethen were huge personalities and great recruiters for LSU. Bevan said he came to LSU because of Corbett. He was set to sign with Tennessee until Corbett convinced him otherwise.
When those folks passed, Mac was not able to fill the void. Stovall was a great recruiter but he was RB coach for Mac.
However, it was a bit deeper than that IMHO. The issues were bigger than one player.
From 1974 to Mac's retirment he only beat one team that ended the ranked in the Top 20 in any poll, an that being a team that finished No. 20.
George Bevan spoke at a Gridiron function earlier this year and he explained that Mac didn't do much recruiting, was not a stregth at all.
In his earlier years Athletic Director Jim Corbett and former Governor John McKiethen were huge personalities and great recruiters for LSU. Bevan said he came to LSU because of Corbett. He was set to sign with Tennessee until Corbett convinced him otherwise.
When those folks passed, Mac was not able to fill the void. Stovall was a great recruiter but he was RB coach for Mac.
This post was edited on 12/22/13 at 4:14 pm
Posted on 12/22/13 at 4:23 pm to Penrod
quote:
BTW, Mac went about a dozen years without beating Bama.
Bryant lost 29 games during the 18 years that Mac was at LSU. How many SEC teams beat Bama more than 2 times during that period?
LSU didn't even start playing Bama, yearly, until '64, which was Mac's first crack at the bear.
1964 - Bama's only loss to Texas in Orange Bowl.
1965 - Bama lost by 1 point between the hedges to start the season.
1966 - Bama undefeated, including crushing #6 Nebraska 34-7 in the Sugar Bowl.
1967 - Bama lost to #6 Tennessee in Birmingham, and to aTm in the Cotton Bowl.
1968 - Bama lost to Ole Miss, Tennessee and Missouri in the Gator Bowl.
1969 - lost @ Vandy (?), a third in a row to Tennessee, @ LSU (?), the Iron Bowl and Colorado in the Liberty Bowl.
1970 - Bama's toughest schedule ever, IMHO - they faced 8 ranked teams, losing to 6 of them, including LSU and Oklahoma in the Bluebonnet Bowl.
1971 - Bama undefeated until losing to Nebraska in the Orange Bowl.
1972 - Undefeated until dropping the Iron Bowl and another Bowl loss (this time the Cotton to Texas).
1973 - Bama undefeated until losing the Sugar Bowl to Notre Dame (a team featuring Gerry Dinardo as an offensive guard for the Fighting Irish).
1974 - Bama undefeated until losing the Orange Bowl to Notre Dame (a team featuring Gerry Dinardo as an offensive guard for the Fighting Irish).
1975 - Bama drops the opener to pre-SEC Missouri and runs the table.
1976 - Losses @ Ole Miss, @ UGA and @Notre Dame
1977 - Lost @ Nebraska
1978 - lost to USC
1979 - Should be noted - regarded as one of the best teams of all time - they only had 3 close contests - 27-17 over Tennessee, 25-18 in the Iron Bowl and 3-0 in Baton Rouge.
SO - by my count in years other than 1969 and 1970 (seasons in which LSU defeated Bama), the other years we played them annually with Mac as the coach, 1964 through 1968, and 1971 to 1979, 13 seasons, and Bama lost a grand total of 8 SEC games - 3 to Tennessee, 2 each to UGA and Ole Miss, and 1 Iron Bowl.
6 of these 13 years Bama was undefeated in the regular season, 2 of which ended in perfect seasons.
This post was edited on 12/22/13 at 10:51 pm
Posted on 12/22/13 at 6:32 pm to Jim Rockford
quote:
Jim Rockford Looking for help on why LSU fell off in 1974, Veer etc Mike Miley decided to play baseball.
This
Posted on 12/22/13 at 7:16 pm to Ace Midnight
quote:
6 of these 13 years Bama was undefeated in the regular season, 2 of which ended in perfect seasons.
Yep, Bear was a great coach. Chollie Mac wasn't. That was my point.
Posted on 12/22/13 at 7:36 pm to Penrod
quote:I guess anyone who wasn't bear was not a good coach during that time period.
Yep, Bear was a great coach. Chollie Mac wasn't. That was my point
Posted on 12/22/13 at 7:37 pm to secman12
Trimble may have been a HS QB, but came to LSU as a RB I believe. He was converted to QB to run the veer.
Most posters pretty much have it right. Mac was a pretty good but not great coach.
Most posters pretty much have it right. Mac was a pretty good but not great coach.
Posted on 12/22/13 at 9:01 pm to bencoleman
Mac was an "elite" defensive coach. Offense boring
Posted on 12/22/13 at 9:04 pm to Tiger-kev
quote:
Mac was an "elite" defensive coach.
The 1958 team gave up:
6,3,6,0,7,7,0,18,6,0 - and 0 to Clemson in the Sugar Bowl.
I know more about defense than Dietzel did (RIP).
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