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Rifle group issues

Posted on 10/24/13 at 6:58 pm
Posted by drakeT1217
Member since Jun 2010
761 posts
Posted on 10/24/13 at 6:58 pm
So I took my rifle to a gun store in Monroe. They will clean guns for a small fee and I figured what the hell a good pre season cleaning can't hurt. Well apparently they took my stock off and now my 7mm A-bolt with a swavorski 3.5-12x56 will not group at all. It's really bad. What do I do? I'm thinking they messed it up taking the stock up.
Posted by QuietTiger
New Orleans
Member since Dec 2003
26256 posts
Posted on 10/24/13 at 7:00 pm to
Re-sight?
Posted by drakeT1217
Member since Jun 2010
761 posts
Posted on 10/24/13 at 7:03 pm to
I've re-sighted. Started at 25 yards and now at 100 I can't group at all. Very steady rest on a lead sled. Just won't group
Posted by Petey8
Member since Jul 2009
608 posts
Posted on 10/24/13 at 7:04 pm to
Have you checked the screws holding the action to the stock? May be loose.
Posted by POONHOUND
Member since Nov 2010
1505 posts
Posted on 10/24/13 at 7:09 pm to
Possible they put something like bore butter inside your barrel. I would thoroughly inspect everything, pull the scope off, relevel it, scrub the shite out of the bore, run dry, clean patches thru it and give it another go. It most probably is your problem. Lesson learned. I would bet that it's either a loose scope screw, mount, or residue inside. Good luck man.
Posted by fishfighter
RIP
Member since Apr 2008
40026 posts
Posted on 10/24/13 at 7:11 pm to
I bet $100 that the barrel is resting on the stock now.

What happens is once you shoot, barrel heats up. The more you shoot, it binds the barrel up against the stock.

Try to slip a piece of paper in between the barrel and stock.

To fix, try reseating gun to stock, adjust it till barrel floats.
Posted by POONHOUND
Member since Nov 2010
1505 posts
Posted on 10/24/13 at 7:12 pm to
Another great possibility. Good call
Posted by Thunder Tiger
Member since Sep 2011
2608 posts
Posted on 10/24/13 at 7:27 pm to
Could messing with the stock have affected the barrel "float?"
ETA: what Fish said
This post was edited on 10/24/13 at 7:30 pm
Posted by wiltznucs
Apollo Beach, FL
Member since Sep 2005
8960 posts
Posted on 10/24/13 at 7:28 pm to
My gut says your scope is loose... My experience has been that it would be nearly impossible due to the way stocks are inletted to have the barrel make contact. Even if it were you'd think simply re-zeroing the gun would bring the patterns tighter. Based on what you describe they seem all over the map. What are we talking about? 3-4" groups at 100 or 10" pie plate?
This post was edited on 10/24/13 at 7:33 pm
Posted by Dcurry80
Alabama
Member since May 2011
238 posts
Posted on 10/24/13 at 7:57 pm to
Take a look at the rifling at the end of the barrel. I have seen small defects cause similar problems. Sometimes a inadvertent bump against a tree, stand or ground can damage it.
Posted by kengel2
Team Gun
Member since Mar 2004
30666 posts
Posted on 10/24/13 at 8:08 pm to
How many rounds did you shoot? What did they use to clean it?

My routine is, shoot a bunch (500 rounds). Clean it real good. I never strip the copper out of the barrel. If they did, it could take anywhere from 1-50 rounds to get that copper back in the barrel and then it will group. Better barrels like Krieger, Rock, Bartlein, Brux take less time to this due to less imperfections.

If not:

Check the crown and look for any damage.

Take the action screws out.

Put the barreled action in the stock while holding the stock at a 45 degree angle.

Basically, you want the recoil lug to rest against the stock.

Re-install action screws and torque them to their specs. Not tight enough or whatever hand tight feels. Use a torque wrench.

Check scope and mounts to see if they are loose.

Lastly, used different ammo.

If all else fails, bed the rifle with some devcon and avoid this for the rest of time. And never let anyone clean your gun.
Posted by dawg23
Baton Rouge, La
Member since Jul 2011
5065 posts
Posted on 10/24/13 at 8:52 pm to
ANy store that cleans guns "for a small fee" is utilizing the least experienced employee.

This would often be the guy who can't seem to do anything else to add to the bottom line (like selling guns).
Posted by GREENHEAD22
Member since Nov 2009
19580 posts
Posted on 10/24/13 at 8:54 pm to
Check the crowning on the barrel.
Posted by INFIDEL
The couch
Member since Aug 2006
16199 posts
Posted on 10/24/13 at 9:26 pm to
They cleaned it. That's most likely your problem. Some like to have clean bores and some don't. My custom shoots great after a cleaning. My xbolt doesn't. It takes about 10-15 shots before it starts shooting again. Shoot it some more.
Posted by INFIDEL
The couch
Member since Aug 2006
16199 posts
Posted on 10/24/13 at 9:31 pm to
Oh, and don't let someone else clean you rifle. Very few people in a gunshop know wtf they are doing. Learn to clean your own shite and you are better off. That being said, shoot it some more. I'm pretty sure you'll be fine.
Posted by TigerOnThe Hill
Springhill, LA
Member since Sep 2008
6810 posts
Posted on 10/26/13 at 1:52 pm to
quote:

Oh, and don't let someone else clean you rifle. Very few people in a gunshop know wtf they are doing. Learn to clean your own shite and you are better off.


Buy the following:
A nice one piece coated rod that's specific for your caliber.
A quality jag.
Quality bronze brushes.
Quality cloth cleaning patches.
A quality bore guide (the last couple I've bought were the "Possum Hollow" brand at Midway (LINK ).
A foam type bore cleaner (I use Wipe-Out).
A good liquid bore cleaner (I use a 3:1 mix of Shooter's Choice and Kroil).
Small can of JB Bore paste, in case the bore gets REALLY dirty.

You've noticed the operative word is "quality." Buy good equipment ONCE and your guns (and equipment) will last you a lifetime. And as earlier mentioned by someone, you don't necessarily need to get the bore "squeaky" clean. Consequently, I don't use the extreme ammonia cleaners anymore.
Posted by TigerOnThe Hill
Springhill, LA
Member since Sep 2008
6810 posts
Posted on 10/26/13 at 2:06 pm to
Drake,
I feel you're pain. Not many things in life are more frustrating than a gun that's suddenly become inaccurate. The following is my approach (albeit, not necessarily in this specific order; I'd do the easy things you're comfortable first).

You're going to have to work through a stepwise process to figure it out. Based on current info, I'd suspect something's happened w/ the bedding (including the action screws), a problem w/ the scope, a problem w/ the rings/base or a damaged crown. Erratic shots sound more like a problem w/ the scope, ring, mounts or action screws. If there's a problem w/ a pressure point, the shots will gradually move in the direction AWAY from the pressure point.

1. Rule out a problem w/ the scope by changing to a scope you already know to be RELIABLE.
2. Remount the base, using BLUE Loc-Tite (NOT red). I always use the $10 Weaver bases, even on my prairie dog handguns. Easy, and cheap enough, to try your rifle w/ a Weaver base.ETA: Before installing the scope base w/ Loc-Tite, individually check the length of each screw. Put the base in place, then screw in a screw into the intended hole. If the base is not TIGHT, the screw is too long. If the screw is too long, cut off the excess w/ a Dremel tool or get a new screw. It should have a minimum of 3 threads for it to have adequate strength. If it doesn't, it's too short and will need to be replaced. Repeat this step w/ each screw in a different hole.
3. Remount the rings. I don't use Loc-Tite on the rings. Be sure the screws attaching the upper/lower rings are equally tightened. If the rings have not been lapped, do so. If you don't have the equipment to lap them or don't feel comfortable doing it, change the rings to Burris Signature Z-Rings (the ones w/ plastic inserts).
4. Check for any high spots in the barrel channel or action part of the stock.
5. I don't know if your gun came from the factory w/ a free floated barrel or not. If it is free floated, you might add a pressure point on the barrel at the front tip of your stock by putting 1-2 business cards at the very front of the stock in the barrel channel. You can Google all this or look on YouTube. If If it still doesn't shoot well, free float the entire barrel. You can always remake a pressure point as above and reshoot. Some barrels shoot better w/ a pressure point, some don't.
6. Check the action screws as mentioned above.
7. Use a torque wrench (and follows it's recs) to adjust the mount, rings and action screws.
8. Try different ammo. Sometimes a gun barrel needs more than 3-4 shots w/ a particular load before it starts shooting that load well.
9. I don't worry to awfully much about letting a barrel cool down entirely between shots. A well bedded gun should be reasonably accurate even w/ a hot barrel. I'm leaving for a praire dog hunt in a few days. The guide said to count on 200 rounds/day. I can promise you my barrels will get hot, but the guns will still be VERY accurate.
10. Be sure the crown is not damaged. (Especially check for this since someone else cleaned your gun. It should've cleaned from the action, but it it was cleaned from the muzzle, the crown may have been damaged).
11. Be sure the gun is clean, but use the proper equipment, i.e. a one piece steel rod (appropriate caliber) w/ a good bore guide. More gun barrels are ruined by poor cleaning technique than by being dirty.
12. When you shoot, be sure the barrel's not resting on anything.

If it's not reasonably improved w/ the above, I bet it's a more serious problem w/ the barrel/action itself. Good luck and keep us updated.

How bad are the groups it's shooting?
Posted by INFIDEL
The couch
Member since Aug 2006
16199 posts
Posted on 10/26/13 at 2:31 pm to
Or he could just shoot it
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