Formaldehyde found in imported Vietnames and Chinese catfish | Page 6 | TigerDroppings.com

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HortensePowdermaker
Grambling Fan
Member since Feb 2013
696 posts

re: Formaldehyde found in imported Vietnames and Chinese catfish


quote:

Catfish isn't subsidized.


It certainly has been at times:

quote:

One of the more unusual offshoots of Congress's drought-relief efforts was a $34 million assistance program for catfish farmers.

Under the 2003 Catfish Feed Assistance Program, announced in August of that year, commercial catfish farmers in Mississippi, Arkansas and a handful of other states got government credits for feed equal to $34 per ton.

All they had to do was apply at their local feed mill. The amount they received was based on how much feed they had purchased at the mill in 2002 -- not any actual losses.


LINK

and Foxnews says they were in the farm bill from this summer






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HortensePowdermaker
Grambling Fan
Member since Feb 2013
696 posts

re: Formaldehyde found in imported Vietnames and Chinese catfish


quote:

You just made a case for why imported fish do not need to be regulated.

Regulations and safety standards are a problem and yet want to regulate imported catfish? It sounds like you would enjoy living in Vietnam.




That's quite an own-petard-hoisting he did of himself.






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Kickadawgitfeelsgood
Lafayette LA
Member since Nov 2005
8314 posts

re: Formaldehyde found in imported Vietnames and Chinese catfish


Louisianians will eat crawfish out the drainage ditch on the side of the road. Just saying.





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Kickadawgitfeelsgood
Lafayette LA
Member since Nov 2005
8314 posts

re: Formaldehyde found in imported Vietnames and Chinese catfish


quote:

Catfish isn't subsidized.


Ever got a "bait check" from a government agency?



This post was edited on 9/18 at 3:33 am


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conservativewifeymom
Maryland
Member since Oct 2012
817 posts

re: Formaldehyde found in imported Vietnames and Chinese catfish


Yes, he does. Our gas tax went up 4 cents a gallon, we now pay $85 a year (and will go up next year) 'rain tax,' we pay a 'Chesapeake Bay protection' tax on each water bill, etc, etc. 'Mechanism?' If you're implying that the voters have a say, WRONG! We did not get to vote on any of these! As for your second question, I have already discussed earlier in the thread the price of catfish here ($8 when not on sale). If you'd like to do a state by state comparison, feel free. Also feel free to figure out the price component breakdown. Better yet, you can easily do a google search to find out that Maryland is one of the highest-taxing states in the country.





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deltaland
Mississippi St. Fan
Member since Mar 2011
25037 posts

re: Formaldehyde found in imported Vietnames and Chinese catfish


If it were a truly free market then neither us or vietnam would be regulated and then we could choose how we raised our fish based on consumer preference. I'm making a case that all domestic industries should be less regulated. If they are going to be regulated due to safety concerns, then you have to regulate imports. You can't regulate 1 and not the other, that's pure hypocrisy





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I B Freeman
Member since Oct 2009
6189 posts

re: Formaldehyde found in imported Vietnames and Chinese catfish


quote:

.Vietnam is a communist country and subsidizes their farmers, so they sell below fair market value.


Link? That is BS too.

Now you have lied about feed cost, lied about grain markets, lied about the size of the fresh catfish market, lied about the quality of imported catfish. You keep on presenting yourself as part of the industry yet you posted just the other day that you are 22 years old. Have you personally every owned a catfish farm?

The recent lobbying on tariffs was to make them bigger.

When you start making threads about ending catfish tariffs and how terrible it is the industry is lobbying for subsidies and how the industry has a trade organization that among it's stated goals is to find government money for catfish farmers then you might have some credibility.

This is a stupid topic. There is no question the catfish industry is simply wanting preferential treatment from government just like hundreds of others.

All this malapropos whining is more than I can stomach.






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deltaland
Mississippi St. Fan
Member since Mar 2011
25037 posts

re: Formaldehyde found in imported Vietnames and Chinese catfish


I didn't know about the feed thing in 2003. Doesn't surprise me though back then.. A lot of big money corporations backed catfish farms then such as Hormel foods. They had all kinds of pull in Govt, and were extremely crooked. Most of them went out of business such as Aquapro, who was the only publicly traded catfish farm ever. They made millions and had a co op of over 10 farmers. The founder pump and dumped the stocks and stole 38 million from stockholders and put the farmers in the co op out of business. I can remember the guy having to run off up north cause the local farmers were trying to kill him for it.. shite was crazy in this industry when it was at its peak





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I B Freeman
Member since Oct 2009
6189 posts

re: Formaldehyde found in imported Vietnames and Chinese catfish


[quote]The story begins in the early 1990s, when, taking note of the Asian tiger economies surrounding it, communist Vietnam began tinkering with market-oriented reforms. The experiments proved to be an enormous success. According to the New York Times, loosening the state's grip on private industry enabled Vietnam to become the world's second largest exporter of rice, a force to be reckoned with in coffee markets and an emerging exporter of catfish — all in a very short period of time. In less than a decade, poverty rates in rural Vietnam fell from 70 to 30 percent.

Soon, Vietnamese catfish farmers, most in the Mekong Delta, had won over a fifth of the U.S. frozen catfish market. That didn't sit well in the American South, particularly in Mississippi, where U.S.-grown catfish were increasingly being replaced on restaurant menus and store shelves by their Vietnamese cousins. So U.S. catfish farmers did what unfortunately has become as much of an American tradition as Thanksgiving football, two-party politics and the big box store: They asked politicians to pass laws to protect them from more worthy competitors.
The politicians obliged. Mississippi Sen. Trent Lott was first up, introducing a measure in the U.S. Senate – through an obscure amendment attached to an unrelated appropriations bill, naturally – declaring that henceforth, only the U.S. strain of catfish could henceforth be called "catfish."

Traditionally, "catfish" has referred to any of the thousands of varieties of bottom-dwelling fish with whiskers. After Lott's amendment, catfish originating from Vietnam would be sold as "basa" or "tra," exotic-sounding names that do more to confuse consumers than to educate them. The difference between the two varieties is almost nonexistent.

Such thick-headedness extended to both parties. In its "Harvesting Poverty" series, the Times notes that Rep. Marion Berry, D-Ark., hinted (with no scientific support whatsoever) that Vietnamese catfish weren't safe for American consumers to eat because they had likely been tainted with Agent Orange, the defoliant the U.S. government sprayed over Vietnam three decades ago.

The irony of using Agent Orange to deny Vietnamese farmers access to U.S markets apparently escaped the congressman.

Next came an anti-dumping case against Vietnamese catfish. "Anti-dumping" suits are anti-competitive tools heavily subsidized U.S. industries use to slap tariffs on imports from countries they claim are too heavily subsidized. But the U.S. Commerce Department couldn't find any evidence that Vietnam was significantly subsidizing its catfish industry. By all indications, Vietnam was simply making better, cheaper catfish.
Nevertheless, the Commerce Department buckled to political pressure, and issued a ridiculous, blanket declaration that Vietnam in general was a "non-market" economy, meaning that all of its industries were, by definition, anti-competitive (there's armloads more irony in the fact that the Commerce Department is charged with making these kinds of decisions — it's little more than a conduit for corporate welfare for U.S. businesses).

The U.S. then slapped draconian tariffs on Vietnamese catfish, jeopardizing the livelihood of the country's fishermen. It was a striking rebuke of a country emerging from the constraints of Marxism, and it came from the United States, a country that not only purports to be the beacon of capitalism, but also sacrificed 60,000 of its own citizens in a war ostensibly fought to rid Vietnam of Marxism.

Despite the tariffs and the handicap of having to market their catfish under a name that sounds nothing like "catfish," Vietnamese catfish farmers persisted -- thrived, even. A Mississippi State poll conducted in 2005 showed that American consumers preferred Vietnamese "basra" to American-farmed catfish by a margin of 3 to 1. A subsequent poll by a marketing firm in Louisiana gave the nod to Vietnamese fish too, though by a slimmer margin.

That couldn't stand. So the politicians again sprang into action, this time with more drastic measures.

In August 2005, regulators in Alabama and Louisiana out-and-out banned Vietnamese catfish from those states. Their reason? Vietnamese catfish posed a "bioterrorism" threat to U.S. consumers — as if Vietnamese Al Qaeda operatives were planning attacks on the use by poisoning the country's catfish exports.

Both states cited an antibiotic Vietnam allows its fishermen to use that hasn't been approved in the U.S., though as William Anderson of the Mises Institute notes, added protection from disease would seem to make the fish safer. Congressmen from those states then pushed the FDA for a nationwide ban on the imports. The FDA, thankfully, refused.

Nativists argue that we should protect the catfish farmers in Mississippi, Alabama and Louisiana from their Vietnamese competitors for the simple reason that they're Americans, even if it means denying consumers safer, cheaper, better-tasting catfish.

But because of the players involved, the catfish wars aptly illustrate the absurdity of nativist thinking. Thirty years after the last U.S. troops died in Vietnam, that country is inching its way toward capitalism. With petty politics and protectionist trade barriers, it's now the U.S. government that's standing in its wa


Read more: LINK ]






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JasonL79
New Orleans Saints Fan
Gretna
Member since Jan 2010
4812 posts

re: Formaldehyde found in imported Vietnames and Chinese catfish


I don't know how anyone can say the global market is a free marketplace. Some of these asian countries pay their workers next to nothing which enables them to sell seafood over here dirt cheap.

This is one of the US's problems right now. Sending money overseas for cheaper products and killing American jobs. These foreign countries are not playing by the same rules as the US.

How someone would want to support these cheap products is beyond me.






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Srbtiger06
USA Fan
Buga Nation
Member since Apr 2006
21989 posts

re: Formaldehyde found in imported Vietnames and Chinese catfish


quote:

These foreign countries are not playing by the same rules as the US.


Which is what IB is totally missing. He's hard up against subsidies and the government propping businesses up but totally misses the other side of the equation.

Government regulating imports? HORRIBLE
Government regulating domestic product even heavier? Meh...no big.

Then he just moves the goalposts point by point, never looking at the bigger picture.

quote:

I don't know how anyone can say the global market is a free marketplace. Some of these asian countries pay their workers next to nothing which enables them to sell seafood over here dirt cheap.


Like this. We have a minimum wage which raises domestic production costs and consequently helps foreign producers. We have ethanol mandates which drive up the price of feed for domestic producers and consequently helps foreign producers.

He keeps screaming for a free global market and slamming Delta while never acknowledging that we don't have a domestic free market.

To answer another poster, no, it isn't the job of the government to prop up domestic businesses. It is, in my opinion, the governments job to be on their side in these matters though. By having these regulations, they aren't...they're hampering them.



This post was edited on 9/18 at 9:09 am


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deltaland
Mississippi St. Fan
Member since Mar 2011
25037 posts

re: Formaldehyde found in imported Vietnames and Chinese catfish


Dude, there is scientific proof that these chemicals and antibiotics exist in their fish. The chicken from there has the same problems. My OP presents one case of this. Get that hack bull shite article out of here, its laughable that it suggests the vietnam fish is safer. The agenda in the article is so blatant it isn't credible. I could find articles that give the exact opposite view. I swear to God you are biggest pretentious douche I'd love nothing more than to beat your fricking head in with a bat





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HortensePowdermaker
Grambling Fan
Member since Feb 2013
696 posts

re: Formaldehyde found in imported Vietnames and Chinese catfish


quote:

Yes, he does. Our gas tax went up 4 cents a gallon, we now pay $85 a year (and will go up next year) 'rain tax,' we pay a 'Chesapeake Bay protection' tax on each water bill, etc, etc. 'Mechanism?' If you're implying that the voters have a say, WRONG! We did not get to vote on any of these!


Interesting. The state of Maryland has an all-powerful governor and a legislature that is evidently not elected by the voters.

quote:

As for your second question, I have already discussed earlier in the thread the price of catfish here ($8 when not on sale). If you'd like to do a state by state comparison, feel free. Also feel free to figure out the price component breakdown. Better yet, you can easily do a google search to find out that Maryland is one of the highest-taxing states in the country.


What you said was taxes are the main reason everything is so much more expensive. And I'm calling BS - particularly since you refuse to answer.






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HortensePowdermaker
Grambling Fan
Member since Feb 2013
696 posts

re: Formaldehyde found in imported Vietnames and Chinese catfish


quote:

Government regulating imports? HORRIBLE
Government regulating domestic product even heavier? Meh...no big.


Delta himself said that if the fish is clean then the regulations are zero cost to the industry...so what is he worried about?






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Srbtiger06
USA Fan
Buga Nation
Member since Apr 2006
21989 posts

re: Formaldehyde found in imported Vietnames and Chinese catfish


quote:



Delta himself said that if the fish is clean then the regulations are zero cost to the industry...so what is he worried about?


Must have missed that. Was he saying there was no cost in achieving the cleanliness of the fish and water? No cost in maintaining those levels?






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deltaland
Mississippi St. Fan
Member since Mar 2011
25037 posts

re: Formaldehyde found in imported Vietnames and Chinese catfish


I guess IB doesn't care about American jobs or economy he would rather support Vietnam due to narrow minded idealogy. Fact is, if all of the Govt followed his idealogy today, and got rid of these "protectionist" policies in ever American industry, the entire economy would collapse and unemployment would be massive. Like I said earlier in the thread, attack the original policies that led to industries needing help. (Such as minimum wage, ethanol mandates, etc). Don't blame the american worker for trying to survive shitty policy. We all know they'll never get rid of the above things I stated, so what is there left to do? Just go unemployed? IB blames industries for asking the Govt to re level the markets the Govt fricked up in the first place, yet he never gives a viable alternative solution





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Srbtiger06
USA Fan
Buga Nation
Member since Apr 2006
21989 posts

re: Formaldehyde found in imported Vietnames and Chinese catfish


quote:

Like I said earlier in the thread, attack the original policies that led to industries needing help. (Such as minimum wage, ethanol mandates, etc). Don't blame the american worker for trying to survive shitty policy.


That's what he doesn't grasp. In most cases I personally agree with the principle of what he believes in. In an ideal world the government shouldn't be doling out subsidies to prop up businesses.

He just doesn't look at the entire issue. Instead, he gets tunnel vision and throws together spastic arguments based around his hate for subsidies and 2 minutes worth of google research. It is like he googles "bad catfish in US" and just links a bunch of articles without reading them and then moves from point to point acting like an expert. It is both frustrating as hell and funny.

quote:

We all know they'll never get rid of the above things I stated, so what is there left to do?


Exactly. If he would quit flipping out about the band-aid and start looking at how the cut got there in the first place he would be much better off. I respect him for sticking to his guns and for being passionate about an issue but crap. It is tough to take him seriously when he argues points that help the competition and ignores points that hurt us domestically.



This post was edited on 9/18 at 9:53 am


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deltaland
Mississippi St. Fan
Member since Mar 2011
25037 posts

re: Formaldehyde found in imported Vietnames and Chinese catfish


There is cost in maintaining it. We have high dollar wells pumping clean ground water while Vietnam pipes in polluted river water. We can't use the chemicals or antibiotics they have been using to combat disease. Using those allows for more pounds per acre to be produces without massive fish kills..resulting in lower production costs per pound due to higher survival and better yields per acre





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HortensePowdermaker
Grambling Fan
Member since Feb 2013
696 posts

re: Formaldehyde found in imported Vietnames and Chinese catfish


quote:

I guess IB doesn't care about American jobs or economy he would rather support Vietnam due to narrow minded idealogy.


Do you understand competitive advantage? The "loss" of American jobs would be due to consumers having lower prices according to your own formulation. Lower prices means more net income in our economy...which means more jobs created.






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Srbtiger06
USA Fan
Buga Nation
Member since Apr 2006
21989 posts

re: Formaldehyde found in imported Vietnames and Chinese catfish


quote:

Do you understand competitive advantage?


Do you?

quote:

The "loss" of American jobs would be due to consumers having lower prices according to your own formulation. Lower prices means more net income in our economy...which means more jobs created.


Which could be achieved several ways. Unfortunately you and IB seem to only be concerned with hurting the foreign farmers.

We're all pretty much arguing the same thing...just with a different method.



This post was edited on 9/18 at 10:21 am


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