Business owners threatened, legal action; refusing facility for gay wedding | Page 7 | TigerDroppings.com

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CptBengal
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Member since Dec 2007
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re: Business owners threatened, legal action; refusing facility for gay wedding


quote:

I'd say that if they ever rent out the place for anything at all,


Hypo: i own a gallery. We have gallery shows, that artists can rent for their events.

Gays show up, want to hold a ceremony there.

Cant i refuse?






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BBONDS25
LSU Fan
Member since Mar 2008
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re: Business owners threatened, legal action; refusing facility for gay wedding


quote:

Amendment I


That's what I thought. No use discussing with you. Your understanding of how the law works is obviously not very sophisticated. (and the bar isn't very high....meaning...you are a simpleton)



This post was edited on 8/15 at 1:57 pm


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Roaad
LSU Fan
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Member since Aug 2006
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re: Business owners threatened, legal action; refusing facility for gay wedding


quote:

eople who say "I'm not homophobic if I'm doing it because God told me to." That's some dopey stuff.
If you do something because you are told to do so, it is your fear of the instructing authority that motivates you.

In this case, "homophobia" would be a false label by definition.






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TH03
Notre Dame Fan
Member since Dec 2008
98867 posts

re: Business owners threatened, legal action; refusing facility for gay wedding


quote:

It is completely faith-bases discriminating. at people who say "I'm not homophobic if I'm doing it because God told me to." That's some dopey stuff.


they can walk around and enjoy the reason the place exists: to be an art gallery.

they just can't rent it out privately






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ballscaster
St. John's Fan
Brighton Beach, Brooklyn
Member since Jun 2013
8138 posts

re: Business owners threatened, legal action; refusing facility for gay wedding


quote:

Hypo: i own a gallery. We have gallery shows, that artists can rent for their events.

Gays show up, want to hold a ceremony there.

Cant i refuse?
Well I meant other than art shows. If they've rented out their gallery for something that has no inherent connection to the business of their gallery, and taking into account that they've been clear in that their objection to this rental proposal was solely because the two wishing to be married are of the same sex, I'd say that your hypothetical isn't in play.

But I'll answer it in the hypothetical sense, since you asked: Yes you can refuse in your hypothetical on account that you don't do weddings. Saying that you don't do gay weddings implies that you do do straight weddings, which would be a violation of the Iowa law, it looks like.






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ballscaster
St. John's Fan
Brighton Beach, Brooklyn
Member since Jun 2013
8138 posts

re: Business owners threatened, legal action; refusing facility for gay wedding


quote:

[That's what I thought. No use discussing with you. Your understanding of how the law works is obviously not very sophisticated. (and the bar isn't very high....meaning...you are a simpleton)
You either have the right to violate business law or you don't. Would you like to cite anything suggesting that you do?






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CptBengal
USA Fan
BR Baby
Member since Dec 2007
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re: Business owners threatened, legal action; refusing facility for gay wedding


quote:

If they've rented out their gallery for something that has no inherent connection to the business of their gallery


do we know?

quote:

taking into account that they've been clear in that their objection to this rental proposal was solely because the two wishing to be married are of the same sex,


their rationale is moot if they dont rent to non-artistic events.






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ballscaster
St. John's Fan
Brighton Beach, Brooklyn
Member since Jun 2013
8138 posts

re: Business owners threatened, legal action; refusing facility for gay wedding


quote:

If you do something because you are told to do so, it is your fear of the instructing authority that motivates you.

In this case, "homophobia" would be a false label by definition.
No way. An individual chooses his religion. If you choose a religious code that has you discriminate against people on the basis of their sexuality, then that makes you the person who is discriminating against people on the basis of their sexuality.






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moneyg
LSU Fan
Member since Jun 2006
19835 posts

re: Business owners threatened, legal action; refusing facility for gay wedding


quote:

Isn't their business subject to some kind of state license? If your business is licensed and protected by state laws, then obviously you can't discriminate against the people of that state in a way that that state prohibits.



...unless those state laws violate some constitutional right the owners have. If that were the case, you'd agree that the state law would be irrelevant, correct?






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Roaad
LSU Fan
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Member since Aug 2006
52769 posts
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re: Business owners threatened, legal action; refusing facility for gay wedding


quote:

An individual chooses his religion. If you choose a religious code that has you discriminate against people on the basis of their sexuality, then that makes you the person who is discriminating against people on the basis of their sexuality.
Were you guilty of homophobia when Louisiana had sodomy laws?

You choose to live here. . .so you MUST have taken into account the sodomy laws. Are you a homophobe?






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ballscaster
St. John's Fan
Brighton Beach, Brooklyn
Member since Jun 2013
8138 posts

re: Business owners threatened, legal action; refusing facility for gay wedding


quote:

they can walk around and enjoy the reason the place exists: to be a business.

they just can't use it to discriminate against people because they're gay






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ballscaster
St. John's Fan
Brighton Beach, Brooklyn
Member since Jun 2013
8138 posts

re: Business owners threatened, legal action; refusing facility for gay wedding


quote:

do we know?

I don't.
quote:

their rationale is moot if they dont rent to non-artistic events.

I don't know this, either. You could be right or wrong here.






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ballscaster
St. John's Fan
Brighton Beach, Brooklyn
Member since Jun 2013
8138 posts

re: Business owners threatened, legal action; refusing facility for gay wedding


quote:

...unless those state laws violate some constitutional right the owners have. If that were the case, you'd agree that the state law would be irrelevant, correct?
Of course.






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ballscaster
St. John's Fan
Brighton Beach, Brooklyn
Member since Jun 2013
8138 posts

re: Business owners threatened, legal action; refusing facility for gay wedding


quote:

Were you guilty of homophobia when Louisiana had sodomy laws?

You choose to live here. . .so you MUST have taken into account the sodomy laws. Are you a homophobe?
Silly argument. I and only I choose what religion, if any, I follow, and to what extent. I have but one of millions of votes that indirectly determine what laws to which I am subject.



This post was edited on 8/15 at 2:11 pm


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BBONDS25
LSU Fan
Member since Mar 2008
16609 posts
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re: Business owners threatened, legal action; refusing facility for gay wedding


quote:

You either have the right to violate business law or you don't. Would you like to cite anything suggesting that you do?


This is a case that involves protected classes and a claim that religious freedoms are being violated. Do you know who has the burden of proof in that situation? Do you know what that burden is? Do you know how that burden is met? These are all questions you should know the answer to before posting legal assertions. Then when you do know the answers to these questions you try to find authority to back up whatever it is you think the answer is. Which is why I asked you for a cite. Which you have failed to provide.






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CptBengal
USA Fan
BR Baby
Member since Dec 2007
40911 posts

re: Business owners threatened, legal action; refusing facility for gay wedding


quote:

they just can't use it to discriminate against people because they're gay


they arent. The gays are allowed to patronize their business like everyone else.






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Roaad
LSU Fan
Bushrod Owns
Member since Aug 2006
52769 posts
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re: Business owners threatened, legal action; refusing facility for gay wedding


quote:

I have but one of millions of votes that indirectly determines what laws to which I am subject.
You are a prisoner in Louisiana?






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ballscaster
St. John's Fan
Brighton Beach, Brooklyn
Member since Jun 2013
8138 posts

re: Business owners threatened, legal action; refusing facility for gay wedding


quote:

This is a case that involves protected classes and a claim that religious freedoms are being violated.
I know.
quote:

Do you know who has the burden of proof in that situation?
No.
quote:

Do you know what that burden is?
Yes.
quote:

Do you know how that burden is met?
Kinda.
quote:

These are all questions you should know the answer to before posting legal assertions.
I didn't.
quote:

Then when you do know the answers to these questions you try to find authority to back up whatever it is you think the answer is. Which is why I asked you for a cite. Which you have failed to provide.
Ok.

None of this changes the fact that you have the right to worship freely but not the right to break a state's business laws freely. The state does not say that you can't discriminate against gays in worship; it states that you can't discriminate against gays in business. It's just common sense and English, and a basic understanding of what the concept of liberty is.

Whether or not I've passed the bar does not change whether I'm right or wrong. If you'd like to dispute anything I've said, claiming that I haven't made partner yet doesn't really cut it.






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ballscaster
St. John's Fan
Brighton Beach, Brooklyn
Member since Jun 2013
8138 posts

re: Business owners threatened, legal action; refusing facility for gay wedding


quote:

You are a prisoner in Louisiana?

In the same way Pip was a prisoner of Estella. I don't live in Louisiana.






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ballscaster
St. John's Fan
Brighton Beach, Brooklyn
Member since Jun 2013
8138 posts

re: Business owners threatened, legal action; refusing facility for gay wedding


quote:

they arent. The gays are allowed to patronize their business like everyone else.

It doesn't sound that way. The couple implied that this isn't true.






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