re: I've got time to kill, how about more tactics? Bayern vs BVB

What did Muller play in his breakout in the WC? Seemed like a CAM or possibly a very withdrawn CF to me. Also how much did he play CM under Jupp?

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Good read on the tactics from the game.

Also, how did the Gundogan-Sahin-Bender triangle work? Gundogan and Sahin will be an interesting partnership.

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Do you think in possession based teams we are going to see the end of the Makelele type DM

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I think that writeup kind of alludes to it. However, Bayern is going to have a hard time in the Bundesliga this year without a DM. Most Bundi teams play a 4-2-3-1 which means most are pretty adept at counter attacking. The 4-1-4-1 without a ball winner is going to be very susceptible to the counter.

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I noticed Thiago was the deepest midfielder, and while not unusual for a passer of his mold, Muller and Kroos aren't exactly great protection.

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Hopefully that's the last time we see that. Thiago has great passing range but his positioning is nowhere near good enough yet to be the deepest man in the midfield, especially if the other two guys aren't providing much cover.

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Busquets is an amazing player in this regard, as he has amazing technique for a player over 6 foot, thus he can foul tactically and he can recycle attacks.

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Busquets is the guy who makes Barca work, IMO. I think Bayern has a guy like that in Javi, I still don't know if we're playing him at DM or CB. I hope it's DM.


I think the best XI Bayern can put out with a 4-1-4-1 is:

---------------------------- Neuer --------------------------------

Lahm ------------ Dante -------- Boateng ---------------- Alaba

--------------------------- Javi ---------------------------------------

Robben -------- Schweiny ---- Thiago/Kroos/Gotze ------- Ribery

--------------------------- Muller ------------------------------------




Tweezy and I have talked about this some. We agree that Mandzukic is not the striker you want if you expect him to drift wide to allow Ribery space in the middle. I think Muller would be perfect for that.

Schweinsteiger has a natural inclination to drop back anyway, so he'd provide passing support for Martinez and Thiago has shown that he's willing to receive the ball deep, so it would look a lot like a double pivot with the other pushing forward.

I also think Gotze can play either wing and as a striker so I'm ready to see him on the field.

I forgot about Javi. He's the closest player to Busquets. He might even be better than him. It's insane when you have players of that size and technical ability. Gustavo is no slouch in that regard either, but I think he may be 'Yaya Toure'd' by Guardiola.

In some ways I think the 4-1-4-1 is the perfect counter to the 4-2-3-1, with the triangle inverted. It might be more difficult for the latter as both of the deepest midfielders in the double pivot face forward midfielders, losing the spare man advantage.

Yeah, I think I see the writing on the wall for Goose and I really don't like it because I think he's very underrated. I think he'd do great in the PL.

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In some ways I think the 4-1-4-1 is the perfect counter to the 4-2-3-1, with the triangle inverted. It might be more difficult for the latter as both of the deepest midfielders in the double pivot face forward midfielders, losing the spare man advantage.

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I think it offers a lot of flexibility but I think that you have to have a DM in order to counter the 4-2-3-1. The article articulated what I was trying to say better about Bayern's positioning on Gundogan's goal. Javi would have broken that attack up or at least disrupted it enough to where he can't put that shot on target so easily.