I've got time to kill, how about more tactics? Bayern vs BVB | TigerDroppings.com

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hendersonshands
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I've got time to kill, how about more tactics? Bayern vs BVB



So what went wrong? Trough my self loathing I noticed a few things that I think went wrong. If you watched the match, feel free to chime in. If this thread is falling off the front page, will accept pity bumps.


Game highlights


OK, number 1:

Tom Starke is awful. The first goal was pretty much all of his fault.

Lewandowski gets the ball on the right flank and sends a cross in to Schmelzer who puts a weak attempt back across the net. Starke comes out and misses the ball. Reus taps it in. This is the 6th minute, already down 1-0.

Aside from that goal, he was indecisive and shaky. He did make a nice save on Lewandowski at one point though.

Two:

Thiago Alcantara played the deepest of the center mids. There was no defensive mid in the lineup. The fact that Pep didn't play Gustavo makes me think he might be on his way out. Gustavo would have been perfect to play with Kroos and Thiago, instead Thomas Muller played deeper.

Thiago is a good deep lying play maker, and he has a lot of Xavi in him, but Xavi has Busquets playing with him. Thiago didn't have that luxury, plus you can tell he's still young, made a couple of bad decisions.

It wasn't all bad though. People turned on Thiago yesterday, but Bayern's first goal was set up by him. He gets the ball facing the left and turns smoothly to open up the right side of the field, where Philipp Lahm is streaking down the right side alone. The ball is played to Lahm, who of course puts in a perfect cross to Arjen Robben. Beautiful buildup.

The problem came when BVB was able to get the ball and break the press, Thiago is a good tackler for his size but he was caught up too far a lot of the time. Which brings me to my next point.

Three:

Daniel van Buyten cannot play a high line. That was the worst game I've seen DVB play since 2011. If you're going to partner DVB and Boateng, you can't play a high line. For one, Boa likes to step high regardless of the line, so you leave Daniel van Buyten who's slower than Beckerman on an island against Lewandowski.

Also, the high line against Dortmund is a recipe for disaster. Dortmund has a ton of speed in attack. If Alaba wasn't fast, we'd have given up 8 goals.


Goal number 2 for BVB came because DVB was out of position and dove to try to head the ball. Ended up with a diving header own goal.

Goal number 3 came because BVB beat the press, Gundogan got the ball with 20 yards of open space, you can see Thiago sprinting into your frame, but Gundogan is way too good to give that much space. That was a great finish but there needs to be a midfielder there to close him down.


Bayern's second goal was bad defending by BVB but another good ball by Lahm and a solid finish by Robben.

Dortmund's 4th goal may have been offsides but it was another example of Bayern getting burned by the high line. Lewandowski wins the ball ten yards past midfield, turns and runs at Bayern's defense that is VERY high up the field, he slips a ball through to Aubameyang who's fast as frick and lays it off for Reus.







So how does Bayern fix it?

Javi Martinez. There's a lot of rumors that Javi may play defense, but he needs to be Bayern's Busquets. It's pretty much known that Pep likes to play with 3 center mids.

-------------------- Javi ------------------------

---------- Schweiny ------ Thiago(Kroos)----------


I don't see Kroos and Thiago being able to play together right now unless there's a dedicated defensive mid.


For the SuperCup, Muller played almost as a center mid. He doesn't have the passing range or positioning for that role. He's best when he can float in and out and show up in dangerous spots. His work rate is the best in the league, but he needs to play as a striker, withdrawn striker or winger. Mandzukic didn't look very good, maybe Muller will be given a chance as a striker in an upcoming match.







With all of that said, Bayern is going to be a very, very good team this season. They just won't reach their potential without some flexibility from Pep.







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LSUSOBEAST1
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re: I've got time to kill, how about more tactics? Bayern vs BVB


I didn't watch enough of the match to really contribute to this thread. I only watched the last half hour. But as you said, the high line simply wasn't working. DVB's positioning fricked the entire line.

Thiago is brilliant on the ball and the way he turns up field and plays the ball is absolutely fantastic to watch. But he was poor in defense, in my opinion, going in late on a few tackles and just generally not putting in that extra effort.

Pep took a huge risk when he bought Thiago. Moving the other midfielders out of position, he is putting the entire midfield in jeopardy. I'm worried he will run into the same problems he eventually did at Barça: worthless possession.






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hendersonshands
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re: I've got time to kill, how about more tactics? Bayern vs BVB


If he builds the midfield around Thiago, then Bayern will suffer. The midfield needs to revolve around Schweinsteiger, allowing Thiago to push higher up the field. Teams in the Bundesliga are very good on the counter, we're going to give up a frickton of goals just from possession breaking down and a quick counter against a high line, unless things change from what they were yesterday.


I think a


-------------------- Neuer -----------------------

Lahm -------- Dante ------ Boateng --------- Alaba

------------------ Martinez ----------------------

Robben ----- Schweiny ---- Thiago --------- Ribery

------------------- Muller -----------------------


Lineup is the best in Europe. I also think if you take out Schweinsteiger and Martinez and replace them with Kroos and whomever, it becomes much more beatable.







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LSUSOBEAST1
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re: I've got time to kill, how about more tactics? Bayern vs BVB


I think his downfall will be moving Javi to CB, if he actually does that. Obviously he has a lot of tactical flexibility with Bayern, but I sincerely hope he doesn't move Martinez to CB or experiment with a back 3 like he did at Barça.

On the topic of best lineups in Europe, it has to be either Bayern or City for me. Maybe Madrid depending on what happens the rest of the window.






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hendersonshands
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re: I've got time to kill, how about more tactics? Bayern vs BVB


I think the only way a back 3 works for Bayern is if you play Alaba and Lahm as outside mid/wingbacks.



I don't know what City or Madrid's lineup will be so I can't really say.






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cwil177
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re: I've got time to kill, how about more tactics? Bayern vs BVB


I would still argue that Barca might have a better lineup on paper.

Beast, what will City's lineup be this year?






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hendersonshands
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re: I've got time to kill, how about more tactics? Bayern vs BVB


Not anymore. Weak at centerback, Xavi is old, Neymar hasn't played in Europe, Pedro and Alexis are both inconsistent, Villa is gone. They will probably be very good but it's up in the air, IMO





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LSUSOBEAST1
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re: I've got time to kill, how about more tactics? Bayern vs BVB


quote:

Beast, what will City's lineup be this year?



Literally who fricking knows. Their transfers have been pretty odd to me so far this window. They are easily the deepest team in the Prem though - their second team might be able to finish top 4 on their own.

Pellegrini must be in heaven with the abundance of players he has at his disposal. Plus they will have incredible tactical flexibility.

I'm not sure what their lineup will look like, but I assume it will be something like this:

---------------Hart

Zabaleta--Kompany--Nastasic--Clichy

-----------------Fernandinho
---------Yaya
----------------Silva

Navas----------------------Jovetic

------------Aguero

Their front 4 will be interesting, with Silva probably being the only guaranteed starter. It will probably take Pellegrini a little while to see which 3 to pick from:

Navas
Dzeko
Negredo
Jovetic
Nasri
Aguero
Milner







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Friend of OBUDan
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re: I've got time to kill, how about more tactics? Bayern vs BVB


yeah, they need to buy Garay or someone else to be in contention for that. Xavi's injury is a question mark for sure.

tough to beat Bayern's. not sure City does, even with its purchases. maybe though. Nastasic going down doesn't help, though severity unknown.






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re: I've got time to kill, how about more tactics? Bayern vs BVB


saw somebody write up on Pellegrini's tactics recently and they guessed that Jovetic would play the no 10 role for him. tough to know for sure. lots and lots of versatility.

i love gael, but i don't particularly rate him highly anymore. Fernandinho should be very good. should be interesting to see how he adapts.






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hendersonshands
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re: I've got time to kill, how about more tactics? Bayern vs BVB


The worst part about City sacking Mancini is now they'll actually win games in the CL





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LSUSOBEAST1
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re: I've got time to kill, how about more tactics? Bayern vs BVB


Yea, Jovetic can play anywhere in the front 4. I'm not too familiar with Pellegrini's tactics, though, so I have only an arbitrary guess on what their XI will look like.





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cwil177
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re: I've got time to kill, how about more tactics? Bayern vs BVB


If Jovetic plays the 10, then where does Silva play? On the wing?





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re: I've got time to kill, how about more tactics? Bayern vs BVB


the article was talking about all the number 10s Pellegrini has used to great effect. just seemed to assume Jovetic would be the guy even though Silva is on the team.





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re: I've got time to kill, how about more tactics? Bayern vs BVB


yeah. as he has done frequently throughout his career. may be a smoother combo than jovetic out wide





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LSUSOBEAST1
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re: I've got time to kill, how about more tactics? Bayern vs BVB


Yea. Personally I would play Jovetic on the left where he is incredibly effective. Silva is a world class 10, no need to change that.





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cwil177
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re: I've got time to kill, how about more tactics? Bayern vs BVB


Exactly what I was thinking. Players in the mold of Silva, Cazorla, etc are far more effective in the middle with their fantastic vision and poise, as opposed to the wing where they get less touches and have less of a command on the game. Jovetic is a more physical player and I think will do better on the wing going at defenders. That said, I don't know his style of play and if this is even something he does.





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LSUSOBEAST1
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re: I've got time to kill, how about more tactics? Bayern vs BVB


Jovetic is closer to the Suarez mold than the Silva/Cazorla one. Very dynamic player. Great technically and can play any of the front 4 pretty effectively.

All things considered, I think a front 4 of Silva, Jovetic, Navas, Aguero will be pretty fluid and all players will likely have a free role.






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TFTC
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re: I've got time to kill, how about more tactics? Bayern vs BVB


Pelligrini played a lot of 4-2-2-2 at Villareal, RM and Malaga...

I can see a front four of Jovetic-Aguero (strikers) Silva - Nasri or Navas (central playmakers)... Navas always appeared to me as more of a traditional winger, but I'm sure he can fill that role... I doubt Pelligrini would have bough him otherwise...

Like you said, he also has other in the squad for a lot of depth, however, I dont see the need for both Negredo and Dzeko...






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re: I've got time to kill, how about more tactics? Bayern vs BVB


if/when we fail with Suarez, I'd be pretty happy if we bid on Dzeko. I agree he just doesn't seem to fit in.


This post was edited on 7/28 at 2:55 pm


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