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re: Barry Larkin says no one associated with PEDs will be elected to HOF
Posted on 7/24/13 at 6:38 pm to Poxxxx says GFR
Posted on 7/24/13 at 6:38 pm to Poxxxx says GFR
quote:The National Baseball Hall of Fame and Museum will remember everything you remember. The McGwire ball is there, the B*nds ball is there, and I'm sure Sosa's melanin is in there somewhere. As for the wing of the place labeled "Hall of Fame," it is likely these cheaters will not be rewarded with a plaque in that part of the building.
Posted by Poxxxx says GFR Frick the HoF. I choose who to remember who was truly great at the game. I'll always remember watching the years of McGwire, Sosa, and Bonds. Childhood favorites such as Piazza, Pudge, and Clemens. I'll pay no mind to any voter who votes with a personal bias from past to present.
I think some people don't realize that the Hall is an exclusive part of the Museum.
Cheaters will be remembered for their unforgettable feats, but they stand to be democratically excluded from the Hall because of the undeniable harm they did to the game and its history.
1
Posted on 7/24/13 at 6:43 pm to ballscaster
quote:
but they stand to be democratically excluded from the Hall because of the undeniable harm they did to the game and its history
Posted on 7/24/13 at 6:47 pm to Matisyeezy
There was no harm...it's entertainment...we had fun, people tuned in who otherwise wouldn't have tuned in...it was something to talk about and watch.
I'll never get "baseball guy" - who thinks the sport needs to be governed by Justice Holmes, the Pope, and George Will.
I'll never get "baseball guy" - who thinks the sport needs to be governed by Justice Holmes, the Pope, and George Will.
Posted on 7/24/13 at 7:08 pm to Zamoro10
I was there for bonds' 600th and 700th. More electric than tiger stadium. He will get in.
Posted on 7/24/13 at 7:38 pm to BBONDS25
quote:
I was there for bonds' 600th and 700th.
That's awesome.
I was watching.
Posted on 7/24/13 at 11:06 pm to Zamoro10
quote:You say this despite the fact that the NL MVP just got busted for cheating. The presumably clean Matt Kemp would stand to make a great deal of money since "NL MVP" would be next to his name. So yes, there is harm. You're wrong.
There was no harm...it's entertainment.
quote:How about the baseball guy who thinks the sport needs to be governed at all?
I'll never get "baseball guy" - who thinks the sport needs to be governed by Justice Holmes, the Pope, and George Will.
Posted on 7/25/13 at 12:34 am to goldennugget
Bonds should get in..
He was a HOF before the roids...but they wont let him in now..
He was a HOF before the roids...but they wont let him in now..
Posted on 7/25/13 at 8:52 am to ballscaster
quote:
Nothing wrong with the principle. The current writers are not hypocrites.
Most have childhood heros who they celebrate to this day knowing they "enhanced their playing experience" via unfair advantages. Yet with in the same breath they criticize and declare players using modern day "enahancements" will never be voted into the HOF. That is called hyprocisy you fricking **** idiot.
Posted on 7/25/13 at 8:59 am to nofear67
quote:Name them. Name their heroes who are known cheaters. Name the known cheaters from today for whom they refuse to vote.
Most have childhood heros who they celebrate to this day knowing they "enhanced their playing experience" via unfair advantages. Yet with in the same breath they criticize and declare players using modern day "enahancements" will never be voted into the HOF.
quote:That is called conjecture.
That is called hyprocisy you fricking **** idiot.
Posted on 7/25/13 at 9:18 am to ballscaster
quote:
There are plenty of failed drug tests and confessions of illegal drug use. Stop this silly crap.
Then line it up to the specific players. People in this thread are keeping out guys like Bagwell because we just know they used. Point to the evidence, specific to each player.
quote:
They'll be voted on. If they don't make it, tough shite.
Sure. That's the standard now. But there's always the back door (the Veteran's Committee). And the HoF has shown throughout its history it has no problem forming committees to elect people or simply changing the rules of induction. So long as they have good ceremonies and keep attendance up, they will have no problem keeping people out. but this is a private museum that needs funds. They need people to come to their museum. and if people stop coming, or more accurately, come in lower numbers, then there will be immense pressure for the HOF to put in this era of players.
Actually, I think the players most harmed by the steroid era, relative to the Hall, are the 1980s players. Their numbers no longer look as impressive and they were robbed of a longer decline phase to pad their numbers as they were displaced by juicers. Guys like Dale Murphy, Lou Whittaker, Bobby Grich, and Alan Trammel are getting kept out as well by steroids.
I'd rather anti-drug crusaders take up the cause of putting people IN the Hall instead of keeping them out. Take up Whittaker's cause or something. Otherwise, it's just a cranky old man way of yelling get off my lawn, and how kids today don't belong with the greats of my youth.
And they didn't "tear up the record book". Every era has its own quirks. The game changes and evolves. the 1960s pitching records are absurd as 1990s hitting records. You just make a mental adjustment. In the 1930s, nearly a third of the league hit 300. Every era has its own style and statistical quirks and trends. There's never been a flat baseline.
Posted on 7/25/13 at 10:42 am to Baloo
quote:Not me. I'm fine with the presumption of innocence and voting somebody in that way if there's no hard evidence or a confession. I'm also fine with the association of guilt to a person who is oddly suspicious. The Hall of Fame essentially is a hall of merit (among other vague words we can use), and a writer can reasonably say that a player's suspicious attitude toward PEDs during the steroid era harmed the game. Even if McGwire had never confessed, and even if he never failed a test (I don't believe he did), I probably would have not voted for him specifically for the "I'm not here to talk about the past" stuff in Congress. He disrespected the game and the country with his cowardice that day.
Then line it up to the specific players. People in this thread are keeping out guys like Bagwell because we just know they used.
quote:Excellent, horribly undersung point.
Actually, I think the players most harmed by the steroid era, relative to the Hall, are the 1980s players. Their numbers no longer look as impressive and they were robbed of a longer decline phase to pad their numbers as they were displaced by juicers. Guys like Dale Murphy, Lou Whittaker, Bobby Grich, and Alan Trammel are getting kept out as well by steroids.
Posted on 7/25/13 at 11:01 am to ballscaster
Were Bonds and Clemens ever found "guilty" of using steroids? I mean it is common knowledge now they did them but Clemens trial got thrown out and I haven't heard a peep about bonds in like 4 years
Posted on 7/25/13 at 11:15 am to Buckeye06
Free Barry!
Posted on 7/25/13 at 11:31 am to ballscaster
quote:
Different situation since they're already in. I don't know the answer to this one (I also do not know what was legal and illegal 60 years ago and who did illegal things).
Amphetamines did not become an illegal drug until 1971.
Posted on 7/25/13 at 11:39 am to RollTide1987
quote:not good news for those who say that the players in the 1950s and 1960s were cheating with amphetamine.
Amphetamines did not become an illegal drug until 1971.
Posted on 7/25/13 at 11:43 am to ballscaster
quote:
not good news for those who say that the players in the 1950s and 1960s were cheating with amphetamine.
Honest question, because I don't remember, when did they start testing for steriods in baseball?
Posted on 7/25/13 at 11:53 am to goldennugget
quote:
Barry Larkin says no one associated with PEDs will be elected to HOF
I'm going to need this to be defined in more detail.
Posted on 7/25/13 at 12:02 pm to LasVegasTiger
quote:Not sure, but it's irrelevant. Baseball and its players are subject to our country's laws which have prohibited non-prescribed anabolic steroid use for almost 40 years if I'm not mistaken. Steroids have been illegal in American baseball as long as they have been illegal in America.
Honest question, because I don't remember, when did they start testing for steriods in baseball?
Posted on 7/25/13 at 1:16 pm to ballscaster
quote:
Baseball and its players are subject to our country's laws which have prohibited non-prescribed anabolic steroid use for almost 40 years if I'm not mistaken.
Remind me again how many players have been arrested, tried, and convicted for illegal steroid use? If your argument is that they broke the law, show me where they broke the law.
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