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Thoughts on camp offers?
Posted on 7/22/13 at 10:42 am
Posted on 7/22/13 at 10:42 am
Let me start by saying congrats to santos !
Ive never been in a football camp setting but took place in over 20 baseball showcases. Can people explain some about the things that coaches ask guys to do there and how people get evaluated. My thoughts were that it is a different world at a camp then it is when on the field, that's why my initial feeling is tape is best.
Ive never been in a football camp setting but took place in over 20 baseball showcases. Can people explain some about the things that coaches ask guys to do there and how people get evaluated. My thoughts were that it is a different world at a camp then it is when on the field, that's why my initial feeling is tape is best.
8
Posted on 7/22/13 at 10:46 am to Mattyice22
The camps allow the coaches to see certain things in each prospect up close to see if they meet the criteria for an offer.
So with someone like Santos, outside of the generic athletic tests (40, vert, etc.) Raymond may be watching how he flips/turns his hips when running with a receiver, how well he reads the ball in the air, and more. While there are a ton of recruits out there it is a delicate process for each of the position coaches to notice certain things in their recruits
So with someone like Santos, outside of the generic athletic tests (40, vert, etc.) Raymond may be watching how he flips/turns his hips when running with a receiver, how well he reads the ball in the air, and more. While there are a ton of recruits out there it is a delicate process for each of the position coaches to notice certain things in their recruits
Posted on 7/22/13 at 10:46 am to Mattyice22
some things can be evaluated better in film, some things can be evaluated better in camps
Posted on 7/22/13 at 10:48 am to Mattyice22
In the case of Santos, they could see that he was A. Big enough to cover big receivers or play inside at safety and B. Very fast (testing in 40 and shuttle) and fluid with his hips (from 1-on-1s against elite receivers).
I would imagine there was some film evaluation of him already that was good. He was first-team all-state in Class 5A, after all. Not like he was coming completely out of nowhere as a football player, although he was coming out of nowhere as a prospect. I don't think he had made the rounds in prospect type camps.
I would imagine there was some film evaluation of him already that was good. He was first-team all-state in Class 5A, after all. Not like he was coming completely out of nowhere as a football player, although he was coming out of nowhere as a prospect. I don't think he had made the rounds in prospect type camps.
Posted on 7/22/13 at 10:48 am to Mattyice22
3/4 of our starting secondary were camp offers
Posted on 7/22/13 at 10:52 am to CourseyCorridor
quote:
Class 5A
Did he transfer to Evangel? Is he the kid that came from Shreve?
Posted on 7/22/13 at 10:54 am to JJ27
quote:
Did he transfer to Evangel? Is he the kid that came from Shreve?
Yes
Posted on 7/22/13 at 10:56 am to Mattyice22
I'd think that the coaches have already evaluated film on the camp offer guys. As Tool said, there are certain thing better evaluated in person, and a quality performance at camp allows the coaches to further their assessment of these guys.
Posted on 7/22/13 at 10:58 am to Mattyice22
Our camp was as elite as it gets. If someone emerges in a group of guys like that them I'm all for them getting an offer. They give offers based on what they see, not what rivals tells them.
Posted on 7/22/13 at 10:59 am to brewhan davey
Thanks everyone for the answers! All the bashing when someone asks a question is the reason i dont post, just gets aggrevating. Im asking because im agaibst combine statistics and had some feeling thats all it was.
Posted on 7/22/13 at 11:00 am to CourseyCorridor
quote:
In the case of Santos, they could see that he was A. Big enough to cover big receivers or play inside at safety and B. Very fast (testing in 40 and shuttle) and fluid with his hips (from 1-on-1s against elite receivers).
Being 6'2 and running a 4.4 40 time catches attention. Executing at an elite camp gets you an offer.
Posted on 7/22/13 at 11:06 am to Cousin
The biggest point is that most high school athletes don't have the best coaches, so they may not fully understand the cognitive side of things or be utilized at the correct position for their talents. Our db coaches can quickly determine who has the physical abilities to go along with the proper coaching to have the best chance for success.
I personally played for a "AA" school, I was 5'11, 210 and ran a 4.55 and could bench press over 460. Think about those stats and without knowing me where would you put me on the field? I played LT, so playing for 3 yrs in a system only playing a couple of positions didn't really help me out. I thought I was great at my position, and therefore I went to.....Lineman Camp! Not a whole lot of need for a 5'11, 210 lb OT. Had I gone to a bigger school, maybe I would have been better utilized elsewhere, who knows, but had I gone to a camp and a college coach said boy you are amazing but NOT a OL, but we could use you here, what do you think? I'd have bee all over it.
I personally played for a "AA" school, I was 5'11, 210 and ran a 4.55 and could bench press over 460. Think about those stats and without knowing me where would you put me on the field? I played LT, so playing for 3 yrs in a system only playing a couple of positions didn't really help me out. I thought I was great at my position, and therefore I went to.....Lineman Camp! Not a whole lot of need for a 5'11, 210 lb OT. Had I gone to a bigger school, maybe I would have been better utilized elsewhere, who knows, but had I gone to a camp and a college coach said boy you are amazing but NOT a OL, but we could use you here, what do you think? I'd have bee all over it.
Posted on 7/22/13 at 11:07 am to Mattyice22
Kinda like the combine, you get to see the raw athletic ability stacked up against other elite prospects at a camp.
That doesn't always translate to the football field but it can help evaluate a players potential based on raw skills.
You can also get a feel for their personality (competitiveness/coach ability/etc.).
Athleticism on film can be misleading due to poor competition or selected film. Same with the personal stuff.
You really have to trust the coaches with camp offers.
Thus far, Miles and Co. have done very well in evaluating those camp players.
So I say
to Mr Santos
That doesn't always translate to the football field but it can help evaluate a players potential based on raw skills.
You can also get a feel for their personality (competitiveness/coach ability/etc.).
Athleticism on film can be misleading due to poor competition or selected film. Same with the personal stuff.
You really have to trust the coaches with camp offers.
Thus far, Miles and Co. have done very well in evaluating those camp players.
So I say
to Mr SantosThis post was edited on 7/22/13 at 11:11 am
Posted on 7/22/13 at 11:10 am to RBWilliams8
I remember one of Skip Bertmans batting assistants, I think Bailey, coming to Ponchatoula. He told stories of how he would go watch a game to see a highly recruited player and he would spot a kid that know one would hold in high regard. He would see things like the speed of the bat and form. And athletism and foot speed would make a certain player stand out. It is an art to spot potential that others can't see. Our coaches have excelled as recruiters. Just look at this years draft and how many stars some of these guys had. I have faith in our coaches judgement.
Posted on 7/22/13 at 11:12 am to Mattyice22
Evaluating football players is very different from evaluating baseball players. In baseball, you tell if a guy has a great arm and fielding ability in a camp, but the key is hitting. Hitting can only be evaluated over a stretch of weeks or months.
Evaluation of high school football players is more about physical attributes and potential to add strength without losing speed/agility. It is also about coachability. If a kid is very physically gifted but has poor technique (that can be coached up), film will not always show their potential.
Get a guy into a camp against top players, a good talent evaluator can learn a lot more than he can on film.
Most of the kids that LSU recruits are physical freaks that are much bigger, stronger, and/or faster than everyone they play against in high school. The only way to find out if they can really play is to see them against players that are physically more similar to them.
Evaluation of high school football players is more about physical attributes and potential to add strength without losing speed/agility. It is also about coachability. If a kid is very physically gifted but has poor technique (that can be coached up), film will not always show their potential.
Get a guy into a camp against top players, a good talent evaluator can learn a lot more than he can on film.
Most of the kids that LSU recruits are physical freaks that are much bigger, stronger, and/or faster than everyone they play against in high school. The only way to find out if they can really play is to see them against players that are physically more similar to them.
Posted on 7/22/13 at 11:16 am to Mattyice22
Also keep in mind that many times someone is being recruited for positions they didn't play in high school.
Posted on 7/22/13 at 11:19 am to RBWilliams8
Outside of Patrick Peterson almost all of our star CBs were relative unknowns when offered. Mathieu and Claiborne were 2 stars out of left field (tyran eventually got bumped to 4stars). While brooks and Simon were solid 4 stars. Brooks was actually ranked highest of the 4 and was dime back when playing with the other 3. Even tre white was a low 4 or 3 star when he first commited. Mills was a low 3 star and started ahead of 3 4 stars (Collins, Thomas, Raymond). CB is very hard to project. Our staffs evaluations speak for themselves.
Posted on 7/22/13 at 11:20 am to Housplants
quote:
Housplants
Spot on
Posted on 7/22/13 at 11:30 am to brewhan davey
Tyrann and Mo were unknown 2 stars
trust the coaches...not the recruiting services on all players..there are simply too many players to evaluate .
trust the coaches...not the recruiting services on all players..there are simply too many players to evaluate .
Posted on 7/22/13 at 11:51 am to ApexTiger
The other thing that camp offers do is show other recruits that there is value in coming to camp.
If they know that offers are consistently occurring after a good showing at camp, then you bet they will be there in camp and working their arse off to impress at camp.
And if you have an offer, you are going to see your competition and know that someone is gunning for your spot.
If they know that offers are consistently occurring after a good showing at camp, then you bet they will be there in camp and working their arse off to impress at camp.
And if you have an offer, you are going to see your competition and know that someone is gunning for your spot.
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