The BART (San Francisco) Strike | Page 2 | TigerDroppings.com

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RogerTheShrubber
LSU Fan
Juneau, AK
Member since Jan 2009
92309 posts
 Online 

re: The BART (San Francisco) Strike



quote:


82k would not go nearly as far in San Fran as it would in Auburn, Alabama. Think about it for a sec.



Only out of the ordinary pricing is housing, and you can still find affordable housing in the bay area if you look hard enough.

82k for transportation workers is unbelievable. The cost of living is similar here and route drivers make about 58-62k a year.

I'll bet you don't have to pay 82k to attract qualified candidates for the job.






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mtntiger
LSU Fan
Asheville, NC
Member since Oct 2003
9288 posts

re: The BART (San Francisco) Strike


Given the current economic situation across the country, it sounds like management is making a fairly generous offer. Unions don't care. They just want theirs.





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GABlueDog
LSU Fan
Marietta, GA
Member since Dec 2008
8045 posts

re: The BART (San Francisco) Strike


quote:

Can't blame the Union for fighting for the interests of the common working man.

How big are the salaries and benefits of the "big bosses"?

I don't know but I would guess that they are grossly overpaid and receive ridiculous benefits.






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DawgfaninCa
Georgia Fan
San Francisco, California
Member since Sep 2012
3914 posts

re: The BART (San Francisco) Strike


quote:


Thoughts?


The Bart workers said they went on strike because they wanted a "fair wage".

Right now they are making $30 an hour and all they need to be hired is a high school diploma or a GED.









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RogerTheShrubber
LSU Fan
Juneau, AK
Member since Jan 2009
92309 posts
 Online 

re: The BART (San Francisco) Strike


quote:

Can't blame the Union for fighting for the interests of the common working man.



The working man is basically a pawn to the union bosses. It's a big business.


quote:

How big are the salaries and benefits of the "big bosses"?



City Administrators in a California city? I'm guessing grossly overpaid. But, they do have some training beyond a CDL.






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DawgfaninCa
Georgia Fan
San Francisco, California
Member since Sep 2012
3914 posts

re: The BART (San Francisco) Strike


quote:

$82K to drive a trolley around San Francisco? Sign me up.



BART is an automated Bay area rapid transit system. It has nothing to do with trolleys, cable cars or buses. that's MUNI.

All the BART drivers have to do is sit in a little room at the front end of the BART trains and push a button to close the doors or step on the brakes if there is a problem.







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Eurocat
Northwestern Fan
Member since Apr 2004
5117 posts

re: The BART (San Francisco) Strike


I can't fault BART employees for wanting that wage. To live well you have to make something close to that in this day and age, especially in San Francisco.

Back in the 50s and 60s you could graduate from High School or get a GED and still get a decent union job in a mill or assembly line and live a middle class life.

The loss of this possibility is very sad for our country. Makes us into haves and have nots.

I do not feel anger at BART employees for wanting to have a middle class life in return for a 40 hour workweek, even if they are not Harvard graduates.







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RogerTheShrubber
LSU Fan
Juneau, AK
Member since Jan 2009
92309 posts
 Online 

re: The BART (San Francisco) Strike


quote:

I can't fault BART employees for wanting that wage. To live well you have to make something close to that in this day and age, especially in San Francisco.

Back in the 50s and 60s you could graduate from High School or get a GED and still get a decent union job in a mill or assembly line and live a middle class life.

The loss of this possibility is very sad for our country. Makes us into haves and have nots.

I do not feel anger at BART employees for wanting to have a middle class life in return for a 40 hour workweek, even if they are not Harvard graduates.


Sure you can. The days of lowly skilled workers making great money have greatly diminished though. There is no reason to pay someone that kind of money for a position that can easily be staffed.

There are some folks with graduate degrees who don't make that kind of money. Only about 20% of people in the US make 80k a year.






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DawgfaninCa
Georgia Fan
San Francisco, California
Member since Sep 2012
3914 posts

re: The BART (San Francisco) Strike


quote:


There are some folks with graduate degrees who don't make that kind of money. Only about 20% of people in the US make 80k a year.


If someone with a college degree applied for a BART job they wouldn't hire them claiming they are over educated and would quit as soon as they found a better job, whereas, someone with only a high school diploma or GED will keep the job for years.







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RogerTheShrubber
LSU Fan
Juneau, AK
Member since Jan 2009
92309 posts
 Online 

re: The BART (San Francisco) Strike


I don't blame folks for wanting more money, but If I were an administrator charged with negotiating with the union I would show them the cold, hard facts that they are indeed overpaid in comparison to their peers who hold similar positions.





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Eurocat
Northwestern Fan
Member since Apr 2004
5117 posts

re: The BART (San Francisco) Strike


"The days of lowly skilled workers making great money have diminished"

1. That is exactly the problem and...

2. That is less of a case in states with strong unions. I live abroad but visit New York often and I see "blue collar" people, transit workers, firemen, teachers living comfortably. It is a great benefit to the social cohesion of a society for there to be a strong middle class. It is almost a pre-requisite.






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DawgfaninCa
Georgia Fan
San Francisco, California
Member since Sep 2012
3914 posts

re: The BART (San Francisco) Strike


Almost everyone here is pissed at the BART workers for going on strike and last night the BART workers agreed to end the strike at 3 PM today and continue the talks for another month.

So instead of getting any pay raise they have to work for at least another month at the same rate of pay.








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Quentin Compson
LSU Fan
Member since Jun 2013
3117 posts

re: The BART (San Francisco) Strike


quote:

It is a great benefit to the social cohesion of a society for there to be a strong middle class. It is almost a pre-requisite
Middle class is either an invented term or a term that means something different to everyone. I strongly disagree with your assertion that unions maintain a strong middle class. Unions give benefits to their members at the expense of the rest of America.

How many hours did a typical, non-supervisory American have to work in the past to furnish his home with Sears‘ lowest-priced versions of each of these items: automatic clothes washer and dryer, full-size refrigerator-freezer, 30-inch electric range-oven combo, television, electric vacuum cleaner, automatic toaster, 10-cup electric coffee maker and 20-gallon electric water heater?

An ordinary American worker in 1956 had to toil for 456 hours — nearly three months — to buy all of these commonplace household items from Sears.

By 1975, an ordinary worker had to spend much less time — only 252 hours, just over a month and a half — than did his 1956 counterpart to buy the same items from Sears.

But what about today? Is it true that economic gains for America‘s middle class have stopped since Gerald Ford occupied the Oval Office?

Here‘s evidence that those gains have not stopped: An ordinary American worker today, to buy the same bundle of items from Sears.com , needs to work a mere 105 hours — just about two and a half weeks. That‘s nearly a month less work time than was required in 1975, nearly nine weeks less than was required in 1956.






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Eurocat
Northwestern Fan
Member since Apr 2004
5117 posts

re: The BART (San Francisco) Strike


An ordinary American definition also includes mathematically the rich (it do so then and now).

But because of the loss of union (good paying) jobs as well as the leap in super-rich folks salaries, the average joe has a helluva lot more difficult time in keeping his head above the water than before.

You need good paying jobs to pay for good products.






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Quentin Compson
LSU Fan
Member since Jun 2013
3117 posts

re: The BART (San Francisco) Strike


quote:

But because of the loss of union (good paying) jobs as well as the leap in super-rich folks salaries, the average joe has a helluva lot more difficult time in keeping his head above the water than before.

I have no idea why you are treating good-paying and union jobs as synonyms. There has been a mass exodus of the middle class from union states like Michigan and Illinois to the sun belt. Can you please explain that to me.







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beaverfever
Arkansas Fan
Little Rock
Member since Jan 2008
7840 posts

re: The BART (San Francisco) Strike


Yeah just go over the bridge and live in Oakland. 82k is a joke. Only in America can you become a millionaire driving a bus.


This post was edited on 7/5 at 1:06 pm


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DawgfaninCa
Georgia Fan
San Francisco, California
Member since Sep 2012
3914 posts

re: The BART (San Francisco) Strike


quote:


You need good paying jobs to pay for good products.


You need to get a good education to get a good paying job.

Someone with just a GED and no skills shouldn't get paid more than the minimum wage.







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RogerTheShrubber
LSU Fan
Juneau, AK
Member since Jan 2009
92309 posts
 Online 

re: The BART (San Francisco) Strike


quote:

But because of the loss of union (good paying) jobs as well as the leap in super-rich folks salaries, the average joe has a helluva lot more difficult time in keeping his head above the water than before.


That's generally what training and education are for. The new fields are technology and health care. Those "union jobs" have gone to a more specialized, more educated work force in different fields.


quote:


You need good paying jobs to pay for good product


True. You also generally need post secondary education or training for a good paying job in todays world.






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Vols&Shaft83
Tennessee Fan
Member since Dec 2012
16355 posts

re: The BART (San Francisco) Strike


quote:

You need to get a good education to get a good paying job.



You need to provide value to get a good paying job, Education is not necessarily a prerequisite. I hire and fire people all the time, and their GPA has nothing to do with my decision. I fired a guy last week who has a doctorate in business administration, because he didn't provide enough value to justify his salary. Meanwhile, I promoted a guy with an associates degree in accounting because he provided more value to my business than was expected.


quote:

Someone with just a GED and no skills shouldn't get paid more than the minimum wage.


I agree with the no skills part, you're income should be determined by your production, and more production requires skills.

I disagree about the GED part. I had to drop out of HS when I was 17 because my mother was sick and I needed to help support her and my sisters. I had to get a GED because I wanted to go to college, and going back to school and getting the required credits for graduation would have taken to long. Got the GED, took the required exams to enroll at UT, passed them with ease.


I spent 2 semesters there and decided to leave because I didn't want to go in debt for a degree I wasn't sure I needed. At the time I was a bartender, making barely $18,000/year. That was 11 years ago. Today I run my own company that employes 12 people full time, whose pay ranges from $50K-$175,000 per year. Not bad for a guy with a GED.






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RogerTheShrubber
LSU Fan
Juneau, AK
Member since Jan 2009
92309 posts
 Online 

re: The BART (San Francisco) Strike


quote:



You need to provide value to get a good paying job, Education is not necessarily a prerequisite


True. The problem is jobs that require little skill and education are easily replaceable and have little value.

The unions specialize in offering protection and good wages for these type of jobs and for a private employer it's really not an issue. For public employers there really isn't any way of setting the market for these jobs, and you tend to get situations where lightly skilled and educated workers are getting this kind of pay and benefit.






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