What churches simply dont get on Gay Marriage | Page 16 | TigerDroppings.com

Posted byMessage
Revelator
Member since Nov 2008
15404 posts

re: What churches simply dont get on Gay Marriage


quote:

Jesus said he wasn't come to destroy the law, but to FULFILL the law.( In other words all Israel was still under the law , until the time that J.C. would FULFILL the law.




This is a point that is constantly overlooked or simply not understood by the marginal reader of the bible or those who are looking at God's word without the indwelling of the Holy Ghost. Jesus spoke to the Jews as Jews using the only thing that they knew, the Law. He only gave glimmers of the things to come in parables that they couldn't understand and fed some stronger doctrine to his close disciples and they too didn't comprehend the scope of the things about to transpire.
We go from having the disciples not even understanding about the resurrection and where Jesus was going to them having enough knowledge to write the gospel and other books of the bible. So what changed? What loosed the blinders from their eyes? God sent the helper from above, the Holy Spirit, and then those things that were dark became illuminated. People pick up the bible and they think they can read it an comprehend its deep meanings because they are intelligent, logical, read Greek, etc. But if they don't have the Holy Spirit residing in them and they are walking closely in his way, they won't understand a thing except what their limited human minds reveal.

John 16:13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, [that] shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come






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BleedPurpleGold
LSU Fan
New Orleans
Member since Apr 2005
15638 posts

re: What churches simply dont get on Gay Marriage


quote:

Being a homosexual is a choice.


No. Read a book.

quote:

By your definition , anything the evil heart of man desires can be blamed on genetics.


What are you talking about? Did I say that?






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TK421
LSU Fan
Baton Rouge
Member since Oct 2011
8320 posts

re: What churches simply dont get on Gay Marriage


quote:

he Old Testament was translated from Hebrew to Greek to Latin. The translation discrepancy occurred between the first two.


Right, which is why I said Hebrew is the pertinent language regarding this discrepancy. I'm sure that could be an interesting debate elsewhere.

quote:

Also, Paul's letter to the Corinthians was in Greek. His admonishment of homosexual behavior used the same terms used in the translation above


Yeah, he was most likely referring to a domineering sexual relationship such as that between old men and young men where the young ones voluntarily had homosexual relationships so that they could prosper politically or economically. From what I recall, it could be translated as literally "man frick"






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Revelator
Member since Nov 2008
15404 posts

re: What churches simply dont get on Gay Marriage


quote:

Those people had free will to make the wrong choice. What choice did David's unborn son have when he got his death sentence by 7-day torture? What wrong decision did those infants, toddlers and adolescents drowned inn the flood make?




First off, many theologians say man has free will or limited will, but not all do. Throw out that from the equation and your entire argument is changed to something else. That's why trying to know what is just by God's standard using your standard is pointless. If God knew David's unborn son would go to heaven for eternity after his death, but if he were allowed to mature he would fall from the faith and be lost eternally, wouldn't Gods act be gracious instead of heinous? Again, finite minds with limited understanding and in some cases, no guidance from the Holy Spirit can't factor all the variables that God used to do things.

By the way, you speak about David's unborn son with concern. Are you pro life?






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NC_Tigah
LSU Fan
Member since Sep 2003
54092 posts

re: What churches simply dont get on Gay Marriage


quote:

In what universe does murdering innocent children get a "JUST" rating? I don't care if this theoretical God considers it "just", he'll be the only one that does, outside of pathological serial killers. And any god that commits this abhorrent evil, deserves no recognition as a god or the illogical praise of greatness & goodness from his apologists.

Now, now.






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RCDfan1950
LSU Fan
United States
Member since Feb 2007
11214 posts

re: What churches simply dont get on Gay Marriage


I was born with an inclination to breed with your wife, BP; especially if she's purty. Does that mean that I don't have a *choice* on whether to act upon a feeling/inclination that is natural?







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DCRebel
Georgetown Fan
An office somewhere
Member since Aug 2009
17644 posts

re: What churches simply dont get on Gay Marriage


quote:

I was born with an inclination to breed with your wife, BP; especially if she's purty. Does that mean that I don't have a *choice* on whether to act upon a feeling/inclination that is natural?



Yeah, and?

So you think gays shouldn't act on their natural sexual urges which literally have no effect on your personal life whatsoever?






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NC_Tigah
LSU Fan
Member since Sep 2003
54092 posts

re: What churches simply dont get on Gay Marriage


quote:

So you think gays shouldn't act on their natural sexual urges
Couldn't care less. Live and let live.
quote:

which literally have no effect on your personal life whatsoever?
You're referencing gay marriage in part, correct?

So...

Changes in tax policy have no effect?

Really?

Can you cite an instance where that is actually true?






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BleedPurpleGold
LSU Fan
New Orleans
Member since Apr 2005
15638 posts

re: What churches simply dont get on Gay Marriage


quote:

I was born with an inclination to breed with your wife, BP; especially if she's purty. Does that mean that I don't have a *choice* on whether to act upon a feeling/inclination that is natural?


I get where you're going with that, but here's where I have the issue. If homosexuality is biological (I would HOPE we can all agree on that truth), then why would God create humans with that trait? God created me with the inclination to be attracted to women. That could lead me astray to covet others' wives, but it could also lead me to marry a wonderful woman who makes it so I never covet anyone else.

The hypothetical you propose is the evil side of God's creation of your heterosexual urge (your urge to covet the woman of another). But there is also a good and Godly side to that urge as I've stated above.

Contrast that with the homosexual urge of someone born homosexual. Why would God create an urge within someone that has absolutely NO good side? Why would he create a human who has the natural and biological urge to be attracted to the same sex, and have no "good" version of that urge? How does God create something wholly evil in someone?

This is my conundrum.






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JEAUXBLEAUX
LSU Fan
Bayonne, NJ
Member since May 2006
46179 posts

re: What churches simply dont get on Gay Marriage


Each church has its rules to follow. If you dont like rules go tl a different church. On the Bible subject it says somewhere beware false prophets and not to worship statues





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BleedPurpleGold
LSU Fan
New Orleans
Member since Apr 2005
15638 posts

re: What churches simply dont get on Gay Marriage


quote:

Each church has its rules to follow. If you dont like rules go tl a different church. On the Bible subject it says somewhere beware false prophets and not to worship statues


I base my view solely on the words of Jesus and no other. So unless you think he's a false prophet, I'm not sure what that has to do with this.






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LSUFreek
LSU Fan
Greater New Orleans
Member since Jan 2007
7958 posts

re: What churches simply dont get on Gay Marriage


quote:

By the way, you speak about David's unborn son with concern. Are you pro life?


Personally, I am pro-life. I've known friends who did it, and I've witnessed the scarring of the soul. I personally don't know any who did it and have no residual emotions from it. But I do know these women exist.

Politically, I believe a raped woman or a woman dying during labor has the freedom to abort which is hypocritical of me because the innocent child has no choice. But Im human, so Im excused from perfection unlike Another Figure in this thread that should be held to a higher standard.

FWIW, I do not support any federally funded abortions. If you want it, pay for it. It might sound insensitive, but there are an infinite amount of unexpected tragedies (like pregnancy from rape) that I don't think is our burden as taxpayers.








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RCDfan1950
LSU Fan
United States
Member since Feb 2007
11214 posts

re: What churches simply dont get on Gay Marriage


Two sides, buddy.

You have what seems to be 'Chaos' in the Natural World. We observe the free will and survival and prosperity impetus in all manner of simple to complex lifeforms. Factor in the 'weather' and all manner of chaotic and relatively unobservable phenomena on a Universal scale. Stuff happens, that is so relatively complex, there is no way to either predict or control it.

Now once an intelligent being is complex enough to access info in order to make a decision for action (me chasing your wife, or doing homo)...then the choice all depends on the PREFERRED OUTCOME.

If Love were to be the preferred outcome...I ought to respect your marriage, and not be selfish, and seek to 'survive and prosper' as Darwin would describe and Nature have me to do...but proffer my choices to meet my preferred outcome.

If we try to apply moral choice to Natural events, or Theology to Science and the manifestation of Universal Scenarios...then we end up throwin mud on a very complex wall.

Some homo-sexuality is biological, of course and obviously. Or it wouldn't exist. If it exist...it's Natural. But applying the preferred end metric...would the practice of acting on Natural homosexual inclinations bring about one's desired end. If for a person with those inclinations, they found the satisfaction of those inclinations to be a preferred end, and they opt to love the person(s) through that act in pursuit of Love...then that would be their choice. They lose the ability to have family. And deny themselves the labor and responsibility, pain and spiritual pleasure...therein. That's why they are 'gay' ...being a parent is highly problematic. But highly informative, as it relates to the Creative process.

Bottom line re Spiritual judgment and God's predestination. There is only one way the puzzle fits. It's for folk to CHOOSE their values, in this present...and bear the consequences (physical and spiritual)...forward. That is consistent with (judgemental) Biblical principles...it is consistent with Justice in that the INDIVIDUAL makes the choice by electing preferred values, and God only ordains that sovereign, free-willed choice. Of course, such an ordination becomes *predestination*...only because God has already experienced everything that can and does happen.

Toddy chose his values in his last life...as I did. We are currently experiencing the consequences/personal characteristics of those previous choices. It's called free-willed sovereignty...the gift of the Creator. Like Mr. Steel Burden told me..."it's the only fair way". Problematic...but fun; as long as you can get back on track.

Debatable concept...for sure. Compatible with Scripture and Justice.







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BleedPurpleGold
LSU Fan
New Orleans
Member since Apr 2005
15638 posts

re: What churches simply dont get on Gay Marriage


quote:

Bottom line re Spiritual judgment and God's predestination. There is only one way the puzzle fits. It's for folk to CHOOSE their values, in this present...and bear the consequences (physical and spiritual)...forward. That is consistent with (judgemental) Biblical principles...it is consistent with Justice in that the INDIVIDUAL makes the choice by electing preferred values, and God only ordains that sovereign, free-willed choice.


Absolutely. But that judgment is God's to make, is it not? So shouldn't we as Christians do the one thing Jesus called us to do (treat one another as we would wish to be treated), and let God sort out whether their lifestyle choice is right or wrong? After all he said himself, "upon these two hang all of the law and the prophets." Therefore, wouldn't homosexuality as a lifestyle take a back seat to us treating those as we wish to be treated?

All I know is, I am saved by grace and grace alone. Nothing I allow a homosexual to do will have an impact on my salvation. So let them do it. It is not my place to cast the first stone. It is not my place to judge whether their lives are sinful or not. It is only my place to love, and I intend to do just that.






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DCRebel
Georgetown Fan
An office somewhere
Member since Aug 2009
17644 posts

re: What churches simply dont get on Gay Marriage


quote:

Changes in tax policy have no effect?



What direct effect will these changes in tax policy you refer have on your life?






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RCDfan1950
LSU Fan
United States
Member since Feb 2007
11214 posts

re: What churches simply dont get on Gay Marriage


I make NO moral judgment, on any individual. "Judge not...". Period.

But as a matter of Principled Responsibility...as matter of "being bought with a price"...and that price being that I am charged to bear witness to that which I BELIEVE to be true (Truth)...if I deny Truth...if I hide and remain silent (a lot easier, and more profitable)...then I let down my part of the Mercy deal.

The Good Book is gonna be *updated*, just like it was by Jesus. Times had radically changed. There will be NO SEX in Heaven anyway...and assuming that high tech moves forward...sex (for procreation) will be obsolete with decades. As will the genetic (manipulation) determination of conceived individuals. Why shoot in the dark...when you can light up the target with a night scope...and hit the (preferred) mark.

I love the devil...in the end. For it's Godly and altruistic purpose...being the contrast for Universal Love. The Choice HAD to exist...someone had to take it so the rest would know...and that's a hard roe to hoe.

We left the Garden for a purpose. To educate ourselves, become sovereign...and have something truly of OUR OWN, to offer in respect and reverence to our Creator. I'm down with it. I don't begrudge or judge anybody their 'education'. In fact...I endorse it. With the caveat of buck up...consequences of ignorant choice or imperfect will...can be a bitch. Get Jesus...that helps. Especially is Saban is on the other team.

You are a good man. Be well. Enjoy the ride.







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BleedPurpleGold
LSU Fan
New Orleans
Member since Apr 2005
15638 posts

re: What churches simply dont get on Gay Marriage


I thank you for the intelligent debate. Its not something I'm very used to on this site. Take it easy man.







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NC_Tigah
LSU Fan
Member since Sep 2003
54092 posts

re: What churches simply dont get on Gay Marriage


quote:

What direct effect will these changes in tax policy you refer have on your life?
Wrong person to ask. My taxes are far far from ordinary. The fact that squeezing one end of the balloon expands my "fair share" is not the point. Make no mistake, I'm not arguing against tax breaks for gay unions at all. Not in the least.

But I do hate stupidity.
Claiming selective tax reductions do not affect others is stupid. So let's frame the question this way, if a law was passed that residents of California and NY were awarded benefits allowing them to pay far less federal tax folks in your state. Would that affect you?




This post was edited on 7/5 at 5:17 pm


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DCRebel
Georgetown Fan
An office somewhere
Member since Aug 2009
17644 posts

re: What churches simply dont get on Gay Marriage


quote:

Claiming selective tax reductions do not affect others is stupid. So let's frame the question this way, if a law was passed that residents of California and NY were awarded benefits allowing them to pay far less federal tax folks in your state. Would that affect you?



No.






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S.E.C. Crazy
Alabama Fan
Alabama
Member since Feb 2013
7259 posts

re: What churches simply dont get on Gay Marriage


( Read a book ).


I did, the bible.TRY IT.






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