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Message
Winklevoss Twins Plan First Fund For Bitcoins
Posted on 7/2/13 at 7:56 am
Posted on 7/2/13 at 7:56 am
LINK
No way this gets a green light. Right?
quote:
Bitcoin has been promoted as an alternative crypto-currency that exists outside the realms of governments and central banks. Now, two backers of the digital money are seeking to bring bitcoin into the investing mainstream — if they win the approval of the United States government.
Cameron and Tyler Winklevoss, the twins best known for their part in the history of Facebook, filed a proposal with securities regulators on Monday that would allow any investor to trade bitcoins, just as if they were stocks. The plan involves an exchange-traded fund, which usually tracks a basket of stocks or a commodity, but in this case would hold only bitcoins.
It is part of a broader effort to remove the stigma hovering over bitcoin and other online money endeavors, which have faced a barrage of regulatory questions and enforcement actions. Recently the world’s largest trading exchange for bitcoins, Mt.Gox, filed with the Treasury Department to register itself as a money services business and comply with money-laundering laws.
The proposal from the twins, who already have sizable bitcoin holdings, is an audacious one: the Winklevoss Bitcoin Trust could send digital money from the realm of computer programmers, Internet entrepreneurs and a small circle of professional investors like themselves into the hands of retail investors — virtually anyone with a brokerage account.
“The trust brings bitcoin to Main Street and mainstream investors to bitcoin,” said Tyler Winklevoss, co-founder of Math-Based Asset Services, which would operate the proposed fund. “It eliminates the friction of buying and reduces the risks associated with storing bitcoin while offering similar investment attributes to direct ownership.”
Their proposal has the advantage of coming from the desk of Kathleen Moriarty, a lawyer at Katten Muchin, who played a leading role in the creation of the first exchange-traded fund and popular gold- and silver-backed E.T.F.’s.
But it is far from certain that securities regulators will approve. Even if they do, such a fund would face major challenges, including the current bottlenecks that stop bitcoins from being easily bought and sold.
“There are so many ways it could go wrong,” said Ugo Egbunike, a senior specialist in exchange-traded funds at the data company Index Universe.
On Monday, several market participants suggested that the proposal was a long shot that was merely an attempt to legitimize the digital currency. But Cameron Winklevoss expressed confidence that regulators would bless the new investment.
No way this gets a green light. Right?
3
Posted on 7/2/13 at 8:06 am to OnTheBrink
quote:
No way this gets a green light. Right?
That would be my guess.
Posted on 7/2/13 at 9:42 am to LSURussian
It won't get the green light anytime soon, but it is amazing that the idea is even being discussed.
Posted on 7/2/13 at 9:43 am to gizmoflak
quote:
It won't get the green light anytime soon, but it is amazing that the idea is even being discussed.
Wait, I thought Team Luddite said that bitcoin was a scam or a ponzi scheme??
Posted on 7/2/13 at 9:44 am to gizmoflak
I want to know how Mt. Gox plans to comply with Anti Money laundering regs? They can't complete simple money transactions.
Posted on 7/2/13 at 9:46 am to Broke
quote:
I want to know how Mt. Gox plans to comply with Anti Money laundering regs? They can't complete simple money transactions
Mt Gox is the myspace of bitcoin exchanges
Their time is almost up
Posted on 7/2/13 at 9:52 am to Broke
quote:
I want to know how Mt. Gox plans to comply with Anti Money laundering regs? They can't complete simple money transactions.
Mt. Gox registers with FinCEN as a money services business
man, look at all this positive news in the bitcoin world. How are y'all going to continue to attack bitcoin if it keeps gaining legitimacy?
Posted on 7/2/13 at 9:59 am to WikiTiger
Do you know what kind of compliance issues they now have to go through? Holy frick they just opened up a massive can of worms. They will have to have policies, procedures, compliance officers, Know your customer rules, money laundering training for their employees (Beavis and Butthead) and a host of other things. They can't even transfer money from here to there. How the frick are they gonna do this?
Posted on 7/2/13 at 10:02 am to WikiTiger
quote:
Wait, I thought Team Luddite said that bitcoin was a scam or a ponzi scheme??
What is it about this thread makes you think that has changed?
Posted on 7/2/13 at 10:02 am to Broke
quote:
Do you know what kind of compliance issues they now have to go through? Holy frick they just opened up a massive can of worms. They will have to have policies, procedures, compliance officers, Know your customer rules, money laundering training for their employees (Beavis and Butthead) and a host of other things. They can't even transfer money from here to there. How the frick are they gonna do this?
So what your saying is that government regulation makes it so that only entrenched, rich players in an industry can operate in it?
Interesting.
Anyway, regardless of all that stuff, they are trying. Whether or not they will succeed...who knows?
Just FYI, it looks like Coinsetter (a US based exchange) it planning on going live this month. They will offer the options trading that y'all have been clamoring for.
Posted on 7/2/13 at 10:03 am to WikiTiger
quote:
So what your saying is that government regulation makes it so that only entrenched, rich players in an industry can operate in it?
You poor?
Posted on 7/2/13 at 10:05 am to LSURussian
quote:
You poor?
Yup. Wonder how that feels? I bet it's turrible.
Posted on 7/2/13 at 10:05 am to WikiTiger
quote:
Just FYI, it looks like Coinsetter (a US based exchange) it planning on going live this month. They will offer the options trading that y'all have been clamoring for.
Wrong again, butthead.
I want a well-capitalized firm with an established reputation to allow shorting btc, not some fly-by-night two-bit group of nerds who have less capital in the firm than I have in my Charles Schwab account.
Posted on 7/2/13 at 10:06 am to WikiTiger
quote:
Just FYI, it looks like Coinsetter (a US based exchange) it planning on going live this month. They will offer the options trading that y'all have been clamoring for.
If this is some exchange just being created for the benefit of bitcoin, I'm not interested. At all.
Posted on 7/2/13 at 1:01 pm to LSURussian
quote:
Wrong again, butthead.
I want a well-capitalized firm with an established reputation to allow shorting btc, not some fly-by-night two-bit group of nerds who have less capital in the firm than I have in my Charles Schwab account.
Patience, Daniel-son. It is coming. Soon enough.
Posted on 7/2/13 at 1:15 pm to WikiTiger
quote:
So what your saying is that government regulation makes it so that only entrenched, rich players in an industry can operate in it?
I think government regulations keep Mom and Pop from getting fleeced by sketchy "investments". If bitcoin wants to play at this level, they'll have to play by the rules.
Posted on 7/2/13 at 1:19 pm to OnTheBrink
quote:
Investors are encouraged to do their own homework on Bitcoin ETFs just as they would any other investment. But not going anywhere near Bitcoins or a Bitcoin ETF derivative is as easy as investment decisions get.
Posted on 7/2/13 at 2:19 pm to Broke
The cost of business operations for MtGOX will increase dramatically. The business will have to raise the fees it charges to cover the increased costs of complying with money transferor status.
As for the Winklevoss brothers' idea. It indicates to me that they have lost confidence in Bitcoins as an investment. However, they realize there is money to be made off of other fools who want to invest in Bitcoins in the form of management fees for operating a fund that invests in Bitcoins on behalf of investors. I guess they think some people will want to invest in Bitcoins without the hassles of creating an e-wallet and engaging in the actual buying and selling of Bitcoins. And any investors will never actually own any Bitcoins so they will never show up on the Bitcoin network.
I think this is a way for the Winklevoss brothers to divest of their Bitcoin holdings without flooding the market with Bitcoins and causing the price to plummet.
As for the Winklevoss brothers' idea. It indicates to me that they have lost confidence in Bitcoins as an investment. However, they realize there is money to be made off of other fools who want to invest in Bitcoins in the form of management fees for operating a fund that invests in Bitcoins on behalf of investors. I guess they think some people will want to invest in Bitcoins without the hassles of creating an e-wallet and engaging in the actual buying and selling of Bitcoins. And any investors will never actually own any Bitcoins so they will never show up on the Bitcoin network.
I think this is a way for the Winklevoss brothers to divest of their Bitcoin holdings without flooding the market with Bitcoins and causing the price to plummet.
Posted on 7/2/13 at 3:06 pm to Poodlebrain
quote:
I think this is a way for the Winklevoss brothers to divest of their Bitcoin holdings without flooding the market with Bitcoins and causing the price to plummet.
Interesting angle. Because now, any amount they dump will cause panic.
Posted on 7/2/13 at 3:22 pm to Broke
Top 5 Reasons The Winklevoss Twins are Assholes:
1. They went to Harvard. Harvard is full to the gills with assholes (some of whom will probably assail us for the preceding mixed metaphor), as anyone knows who has watched Legally Blonde. Former Vice President Al Gore went to Harvard; despite, or perhaps because of, his self-aggrandizing mass-media prophecies on climate change, he just seems like kind of an a-hole. So does U.S. Supreme Court Justice Antonin Scalia, a graduate of Harvard Law School. Statistically, the Winklevii are simply more likely to be assholes based on their educational backgrounds.
2. Larry Summers. Being called an a-hole by Larry Summers is sort of like being called a paranoid dictator by Kim Jong-il. Summers, as well as serving as Grand Poobah a-hole at a university of assholes, famously remarked in 2005 that low numbers of women in the top echelons of the science and engineering professions were due to "issues of intrinsic aptitude." (What a sexist a-hole!) It doesn't always take an a-hole to know one, but Summers can consider himself better-schooled on the subject than most.
Larry Summers "One of the things you learn as a college president is that if an undergraduate is wearing a tie and jacket on Thursday afternoon at three o'clock, there are two possibilities," he said. "One is that they're looking for a job and have an interview; the other is that they are an a-hole. This was the latter case."
3. The Winklevii wear man-purses. It's one thing to be an entitled preppie who allegedly doesn't pay rent on time and disturbs your apartment complex with late-night parties. Then you're just kind of a dick. But throw in "identical gray Tocano man-purses," as the twins apparently like to do, and you're elevated into the rarefied realm of the true a-hole. Get yourselves some fricking wallets and testicles while you're at it, boys.
4. Litigiousness. The Winklevii did not endear themselves to the public when they went back to the feeding trough after receiving $100 million or more in Facebook shares for agreeing not to pursue legal claims against Zuckerberg. Of course, the world is full of venal litigants who go crying to the courts when they can't hack it against competitors in the free market. But the courts don't always call out these plaintiffs for what they are. "The Winklevosses," a federal appeals panel stated, "are not the first parties bested by a competitor who then seek to gain through litigation what they were unable to achieve in the marketplace." The Winklevii vowed to appeal the ruling.
5. The Winklevii respond to being called assholes as only assholes would. The New York Observer has obtained a hilarious e-mail the twins sent to current Harvard President Drew Faust complaining about Summers' remarks, in particular his criticism of their jackets and ties. "Ironically, our choice of attire that day was made out of respect and deference to the office of the President," the pair ceremoniously wrote. "As the current President, we respectfully ask for you to address this unprecedented betrayal of the unique relationship between teacher and student."
1. They went to Harvard. Harvard is full to the gills with assholes (some of whom will probably assail us for the preceding mixed metaphor), as anyone knows who has watched Legally Blonde. Former Vice President Al Gore went to Harvard; despite, or perhaps because of, his self-aggrandizing mass-media prophecies on climate change, he just seems like kind of an a-hole. So does U.S. Supreme Court Justice Antonin Scalia, a graduate of Harvard Law School. Statistically, the Winklevii are simply more likely to be assholes based on their educational backgrounds.
2. Larry Summers. Being called an a-hole by Larry Summers is sort of like being called a paranoid dictator by Kim Jong-il. Summers, as well as serving as Grand Poobah a-hole at a university of assholes, famously remarked in 2005 that low numbers of women in the top echelons of the science and engineering professions were due to "issues of intrinsic aptitude." (What a sexist a-hole!) It doesn't always take an a-hole to know one, but Summers can consider himself better-schooled on the subject than most.
Larry Summers "One of the things you learn as a college president is that if an undergraduate is wearing a tie and jacket on Thursday afternoon at three o'clock, there are two possibilities," he said. "One is that they're looking for a job and have an interview; the other is that they are an a-hole. This was the latter case."
3. The Winklevii wear man-purses. It's one thing to be an entitled preppie who allegedly doesn't pay rent on time and disturbs your apartment complex with late-night parties. Then you're just kind of a dick. But throw in "identical gray Tocano man-purses," as the twins apparently like to do, and you're elevated into the rarefied realm of the true a-hole. Get yourselves some fricking wallets and testicles while you're at it, boys.
4. Litigiousness. The Winklevii did not endear themselves to the public when they went back to the feeding trough after receiving $100 million or more in Facebook shares for agreeing not to pursue legal claims against Zuckerberg. Of course, the world is full of venal litigants who go crying to the courts when they can't hack it against competitors in the free market. But the courts don't always call out these plaintiffs for what they are. "The Winklevosses," a federal appeals panel stated, "are not the first parties bested by a competitor who then seek to gain through litigation what they were unable to achieve in the marketplace." The Winklevii vowed to appeal the ruling.
5. The Winklevii respond to being called assholes as only assholes would. The New York Observer has obtained a hilarious e-mail the twins sent to current Harvard President Drew Faust complaining about Summers' remarks, in particular his criticism of their jackets and ties. "Ironically, our choice of attire that day was made out of respect and deference to the office of the President," the pair ceremoniously wrote. "As the current President, we respectfully ask for you to address this unprecedented betrayal of the unique relationship between teacher and student."
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