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re: Opinions on Jimmy Graham not making the top 100 list?
Posted on 6/14/13 at 1:18 pm to Hoodoo Man
Posted on 6/14/13 at 1:18 pm to Hoodoo Man
quote:
I think he's saying Gronk's hype outmatches his production, not his talent.
The only thing that has ever stoppe his production is not being on the field.
He was on pace for 80 catches and 16 TDs. Id say thats a great year, deapite it getting cut short due to bad luck
3
Posted on 6/14/13 at 1:23 pm to wildtigercat93
quote:
deapite it getting cut short due to being a little bitch
FIFY
Posted on 6/14/13 at 1:29 pm to wildtigercat93
quote:
The only thing that has ever stoppe his production is not being on the field.
He was on pace for 80 catches and 16 TDs. Id say thats a great year, deapite it getting cut short due to bad luck
Yeah, and my Aunt would be my Uncle if she had balls.
Production =/= what could have been
Posted on 6/14/13 at 1:29 pm to 69sleuth
Jimmy was already focused on dominating next season from what i've heard of him during OTAs, feel bad for opposing defenses even more now.
Heard Brees is going to be ranked in the teens, I for one hope he's ahead of Matt Ryan so we don't have to deal with that shite. Not that it even matters since we all know who's better and the list is a joke
Heard Brees is going to be ranked in the teens, I for one hope he's ahead of Matt Ryan so we don't have to deal with that shite. Not that it even matters since we all know who's better and the list is a joke
This post was edited on 6/14/13 at 1:30 pm
Posted on 6/14/13 at 1:31 pm to Hoodoo Man
quote:
Production =/= what could have been
Production is what happens when he is on the field
He produces when he is playing. You cant deny that.
Posted on 6/14/13 at 1:32 pm to wildtigercat93
Sure.
But a guy that plays 12 games a year is not going to beat out a slightly less productive healthy player.
But a guy that plays 12 games a year is not going to beat out a slightly less productive healthy player.
Posted on 6/14/13 at 1:36 pm to Hoodoo Man
The first year there was a "controversy" with all the Miami players voting for each other. Even Willis Magahee made the list.
Maybe the re-manipulated the list in response to that.
Maybe the re-manipulated the list in response to that.
Posted on 6/14/13 at 1:49 pm to Hoodoo Man
quote:
Sure. But a guy that plays 12 games a year is not going to beat out a slightly less productive healthy player.
Well now were arguing two different things
Id obviously rather Gronk stay on the field better like Graham did last season, but actual on field production, i would take Gronk
But saying he didnt have a great season last year, or that his production doesnt match his hype, is insanity.
Posted on 6/14/13 at 4:50 pm to wildtigercat93
quote:
Youre saying Gronk is not in his league, which is beyond stupid
Where?
I said any other TE in the league would love to have the season Graham had outside of maybe Gonazalez because he has been doing that year in and year out.
I was not saying anything about one player being better than another. Statistically speaking Graham had an excellent year for a TE and for many WRs.
And we all know stats don't always equate directly to talent, whether good or bad.
Edit:
Gronk did not have a great season last year. 50ish catches is about or slightly above average. His yardage was above average and his tds was above average.
Sure he could have had a great season if he played 5 more games but he didn't so we can't know for sure. Likely but definitely not a forgone conclusion.
And now he is coming back from a bunch of surgeries. Some guys come back the same and a rare few come back better but some guys never fully come back. I think he'll be close to 100% but will have some drop off, especially with Welker no longer there.
This post was edited on 6/14/13 at 4:57 pm
Posted on 6/14/13 at 5:04 pm to Peazey
quote:
I think he was also saying that Tony Gonzalez is the standard by which consistently great TE's should be measured. Graham has the potential to be that type of player.
Yeah it was more of this than saying one player is better than the other. I said Graham could be a player that is up there. I never said Gronk or Gates or Davis were not.
And yes, if Gronk is on this list and Graham is not, his hype most definitely outweighed his production THIS past year, which is what the list is (supposed to be) based. on. It's not about who was better 2 years ago or over their career.
Posted on 6/14/13 at 5:20 pm to bonethug0108
There was 8 TE's in the top 100... 
. 
. Posted on 6/14/13 at 6:13 pm to bonethug0108
quote:What is your definition of production?
And yes, if Gronk is on this list and Graham is not, his hype most definitely outweighed his production THIS past year
Gronk: 5 catches per game, 71.8 yds per game, and 1 td per game
Graham: 5.7 catches per game, 65.5 yards per game, and 0.6 td per game
From the looks of it, Gronk was much more productive last year and throughout his career as well. Gronk had more touchdowns in his first two seasons than Graham has all together.
Posted on 6/14/13 at 6:21 pm to Sanchito
Good God, why do you people need to knight for Gronkowski so bad?
Posted on 6/14/13 at 8:05 pm to Sanchito
What do you people not get about these top 100 lists being just for that season.
It's not a per game thing or a career thing. What did they do last season? Graham had the better season. Period.
It's not a per game thing or a career thing. What did they do last season? Graham had the better season. Period.
Posted on 6/14/13 at 11:43 pm to bonethug0108
quote:I understand it completely and am in agreement that Graham should be within the list somewhere. What I am not following is is how JG had a better season "period." Is it because he caught thirty more balls and 200 more yards? Gronkowski had more 100 yard games, more multi touchdown games, more touchdowns all together, averaged more yards per reception and caught more of his targets. Are those stats insignificant?
What do you people not get about these top 100 lists being just for that season.
It's not a per game thing or a career thing. What did they do last season? Graham had the better season. Period.
Hoodoo, it is because Gronk has been the best tight end in the league since entering it.
And Thug I am still awaiting the answer to what is production?
This post was edited on 6/14/13 at 11:56 pm
Posted on 6/15/13 at 12:07 am to Sanchito
Also, TEs dont just catch the ball. Gronk is 1 of the best if not the best blocking TE in the NFL. The Pats run behind him everytime they run the ball. That was 1 of the main reasons they were a top 10 rushing team last year.
I love Jimmy Graham too. But, he is not near the type of blocker and complete TE that Gronk is. I actually consider Graham a WR that just happens to be TE size. Graham might be a little better as a WR, but its damn close and could argue either 1. While Gronk is a lot better at blocking than Graham. Gronk is the best TE in the league. Its close between Gronk, Graham, and Gonazles, but Gronk is like a, extra LT in the run blocking game while Graham and Tony G struggle at times. And, Gronk is still on the same level as them as a pass catcher. But, all are phenominal players though.. I think that when its all said and done, we will be seeing 3 of the best TEs ever to play the game in them.
Also just read something that said Graham dropped the most passes in the NFL last year with 14. That could be a factor in him missing the list. But, its still BS that hes not on the list.
I love Jimmy Graham too. But, he is not near the type of blocker and complete TE that Gronk is. I actually consider Graham a WR that just happens to be TE size. Graham might be a little better as a WR, but its damn close and could argue either 1. While Gronk is a lot better at blocking than Graham. Gronk is the best TE in the league. Its close between Gronk, Graham, and Gonazles, but Gronk is like a, extra LT in the run blocking game while Graham and Tony G struggle at times. And, Gronk is still on the same level as them as a pass catcher. But, all are phenominal players though.. I think that when its all said and done, we will be seeing 3 of the best TEs ever to play the game in them.
Also just read something that said Graham dropped the most passes in the NFL last year with 14. That could be a factor in him missing the list. But, its still BS that hes not on the list.
This post was edited on 6/15/13 at 12:11 am
Posted on 6/15/13 at 12:48 am to Sanchito
He had a better season because he played more of it and put up more stats(albeit 2 less tds). Had Gronk stayed healthy he likely would have had a better season than Jimmy. But then we can say had Graham not had an injured wrist he would have put up better stats.
You can't go with what ifs. Fact is Graham produced the better season last year. Not per game averages. Not career. Y'all keep trying to turn this into something it's not.
And fyi Gronk did not have a stellar first season (above average yes) and only had one amazing season. He's only been around 3 years (same as Graham).
Let's not annoint someone best ever before they actually have a long career. Many others have shone brightly for a couple of seasons before busting out or coming back down to earth, and the rash of recent surgeries won't help.
Not saying it's likely he'll fall off but Gates had 2 amazing seasons and then started to lose a step. It can happen to Graham too.
That brings me back to what I first said. Gonzalez is the only recent TE to have a consistently stellar career. It sucks that he plays for those other bastards.
You can't go with what ifs. Fact is Graham produced the better season last year. Not per game averages. Not career. Y'all keep trying to turn this into something it's not.
And fyi Gronk did not have a stellar first season (above average yes) and only had one amazing season. He's only been around 3 years (same as Graham).
Let's not annoint someone best ever before they actually have a long career. Many others have shone brightly for a couple of seasons before busting out or coming back down to earth, and the rash of recent surgeries won't help.
Not saying it's likely he'll fall off but Gates had 2 amazing seasons and then started to lose a step. It can happen to Graham too.
That brings me back to what I first said. Gonzalez is the only recent TE to have a consistently stellar career. It sucks that he plays for those other bastards.
This post was edited on 6/15/13 at 12:51 am
Posted on 6/15/13 at 12:55 am to KG5989
It's hard to block with a bum wrist and Gronk is not like an extra lineman when blocking. Is he good at it? Yes. Better than Graham? At this point yes. But he is not the best blocking TE in the league(and yes I know you didn't claim that, just pointing it out before delusional thoughts take over).
We'll see how they both bounce back from injury this year.
We'll see how they both bounce back from injury this year.
This post was edited on 6/15/13 at 12:57 am
Posted on 6/15/13 at 1:02 am to bonethug0108
I said hes 1 of the best. And hes def 1 of the best blocking TEs in the NFL. Go watch where the Pats run majority of the time. Its behind Gronks side and he is clearing a path. He isnt a blocking specialists like some TEs are where all they do is block, but hes def the best combo of blocking and catching the football in the NFL. Which, IMO, makes him the best TE in the game.
Gronk was banged up all year too. And yes, he is just like another OL when blocking.
I do agree that Tony G is most likely going to go down as the best TE in the game. Sucks that he plays for Falcons. But, I respect him. Hes been a great pro for what 17 years?
Gronk was banged up all year too. And yes, he is just like another OL when blocking.
I do agree that Tony G is most likely going to go down as the best TE in the game. Sucks that he plays for Falcons. But, I respect him. Hes been a great pro for what 17 years?
This post was edited on 6/15/13 at 1:07 am
Posted on 6/15/13 at 4:20 am to wildtigercat93
quote:
He was on pace for 80 catches and 16 TDs. Id say thats a great year, deapite it getting cut short due to bad luck
A player with his injury history getting hurt is not bad luck...
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