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Message
The importance of seeding - with numbers
Posted on 5/27/13 at 10:05 pm
Posted on 5/27/13 at 10:05 pm
Getting tired of people saying the seeding doesn't matter... or it is all geographic...
There are 16 of each seed #1,#2,#3 & #4. I am including the highest, lowest and average RPI and ranking for each seed. I used the USA today ranking since it went up to #44. Since there are 64 teams I gave unranked teams a ranking of 54 (average of 64 and 44) to not mess up the average too badly.
Seed, High RPI, Low RPI, Avg RPI, High rank, low rank, avg rank
1 1 19 9 1 22 9 (0 unranked teams)
2 12 50 28.7 15 54 31.5 (4 unranked teams)
3 26 120 50.7 19 54 44.6 (9 unranked teams)
4 79 251 147 32 54 50.9 (13 unranked teams)
Putting an average rank of 54 for unranked teams closed the gap a lot for avg ranking, but I think this is pretty convincing that on average the higher the seed, the better the team.
There are 16 of each seed #1,#2,#3 & #4. I am including the highest, lowest and average RPI and ranking for each seed. I used the USA today ranking since it went up to #44. Since there are 64 teams I gave unranked teams a ranking of 54 (average of 64 and 44) to not mess up the average too badly.
Seed, High RPI, Low RPI, Avg RPI, High rank, low rank, avg rank
1 1 19 9 1 22 9 (0 unranked teams)
2 12 50 28.7 15 54 31.5 (4 unranked teams)
3 26 120 50.7 19 54 44.6 (9 unranked teams)
4 79 251 147 32 54 50.9 (13 unranked teams)
Putting an average rank of 54 for unranked teams closed the gap a lot for avg ranking, but I think this is pretty convincing that on average the higher the seed, the better the team.
This post was edited on 5/27/13 at 11:32 pm
13
Posted on 5/27/13 at 10:06 pm to eelsuee
rabblerabblerabblerabblerabblerabble
This post was edited on 5/27/13 at 10:08 pm
Posted on 5/27/13 at 10:06 pm to eelsuee
It doesn't matter
Posted on 5/27/13 at 10:06 pm to eelsuee
For some reason I have no idea what you're saying.
Posted on 5/27/13 at 10:07 pm to eelsuee
You didn't really say why it's important, just that higher seeds are better teams.
Posted on 5/27/13 at 10:08 pm to eelsuee
What's your point? Seriously.
Posted on 5/27/13 at 10:10 pm to dreaux
probably made a lot more sense to him while he was typing it. But again, he never said why its important.....
Posted on 5/27/13 at 10:12 pm to eelsuee
when people say seed doesn't matter, they are referring to the top 8 national seeds not the 16 sets of 1 through 4 seeds in the regionals
Posted on 5/27/13 at 10:15 pm to AstroTiger
quote:
when people say seed doesn't matter, they are referring to the top 8 national seeds not the 16 sets of 1 through 4 seeds in the regionals
never would have put that together
Posted on 5/27/13 at 10:16 pm to eelsuee
Seeding is important because without seeding, nothing will grow. If we want our season to grow strong and health from here on out, out seeding will have to be high quality.
Posted on 5/27/13 at 10:18 pm to ell_13
It's kinda like a circle, ell, there isn't a point.
To OP, if you really wanted to make a case, use the RPI, you can get that for every single team in the field. The case would still be moot, but at least you wouldn't have to make up numbers.
Whether you're sick of hearing about it or not, the committee looks at many factors, chiefly RPI and geography. UNC had the #1 RPI, had a better record by half a game and won the ACC regular season and tourney. The chances of them not getting the #1 seed were slim. After that, if they really wanted to screw LSU, they would have made us and Vandy the 2 and 3 seeds, which puts us in the same side of the bracket. They put LSU at the 4 and gave us a favorable draw.
I'm happy!
To OP, if you really wanted to make a case, use the RPI, you can get that for every single team in the field. The case would still be moot, but at least you wouldn't have to make up numbers.
Whether you're sick of hearing about it or not, the committee looks at many factors, chiefly RPI and geography. UNC had the #1 RPI, had a better record by half a game and won the ACC regular season and tourney. The chances of them not getting the #1 seed were slim. After that, if they really wanted to screw LSU, they would have made us and Vandy the 2 and 3 seeds, which puts us in the same side of the bracket. They put LSU at the 4 and gave us a favorable draw.
I'm happy!
This post was edited on 5/27/13 at 10:20 pm
Posted on 5/27/13 at 10:20 pm to AstroTiger
quote:
when people say seed doesn't matter, they are referring to the top 8 national seeds not the 16 sets of 1 through 4 seeds in the regionals
This.
Posted on 5/27/13 at 10:21 pm to eelsuee
quote:awesome post...
eelsuee
This post was edited on 5/27/13 at 10:22 pm
Posted on 5/27/13 at 10:23 pm to ffishstik
I honestly think he was trying to say something valid, but got lost in all the number-crunching.
The talk about "seeding" around here has mostly referred to the top 8 seeds. And some of us know the (most) important thing is hosting the regionals and supers. But it seems he thought people were arguing about the seeding in the regionals, which is important if you're a 3 or 4.
The talk about "seeding" around here has mostly referred to the top 8 seeds. And some of us know the (most) important thing is hosting the regionals and supers. But it seems he thought people were arguing about the seeding in the regionals, which is important if you're a 3 or 4.
Posted on 5/27/13 at 10:28 pm to TBoy
quote:
Seeding is important because without seeding, nothing will grow. If we want our season to grow strong and health from here on out, out seeding will have to be high quality.
...and without trees we wouldn't be able to breathe.
Posted on 5/27/13 at 10:35 pm to eelsuee
quote:
Getting tired of people saying the seeding doesn't matter... or it is all geographic...
There are 16 of each seed #1,#2,#3 & #4. I am including the highest, lowest and average RPI and ranking for each seed. I used the USA today ranking since it went up to #44. Since there are 64 teams I gave unranked teams a ranking of 54 (average of 64 and 54) to not mess up the average too badly.
Seed, High RPI, Low RPI, Avg RPI, High rank, low rank, avg rank
1 1 19 9 1 22 9 (0 unranked teams)
2 12 50 28.7 15 54 31.5 (4 unranked teams)
3 26 120 50.7 19 54 44.6 (9 unranked teams)
4 79 251 147 32 54 50.9 (13 unranked teams)
Putting an average rank of 54 for unranked teams closed the gap a lot for avg ranking, but I think this is pretty convincing that on average the higher the seed, the better the team.
Ok. After reading your post, I finally understand it...and it is embarrassingly obvious.
People aren't talking about the seeding within the 16 regionals...they are talking about the national seeding. Go do an analysis of the #1-#8 national seeds as it relates to:
a.) making the CWS
and
b.) winning the CWS
Then you can explain to us how it makes a difference.
Posted on 5/27/13 at 10:58 pm to moneyg
...and it still doesn't. Looking at the top 4 seeds, the avg RPI of the opponents that they have to face (counting the opposite bracket that they are paired with) is:
1.) UNC - 53
2.) Vandy - 62
3.) Oregon St - 56
4.) LSU - 70
The #1 seed technically got the toughest draw. Here are each team's three top challengers to get to Omaha:
1.) UNC - USCe, Clemson, Florida Atlantic
2.) Vandy - Louisville, Miami, Georgia Tech
3.) Oregon St - Arkansas, Kansas St, Texas A&M
4.) LSU - Virginia Tech, ULL, Oklahoma
Which looks better to you, #1 or #4?
Make the top 8, host throughout. After that matchups matter a hell of a lot more than seeding, and being the higher seed seldom gains you anything on who you draw.
1.) UNC - 53
2.) Vandy - 62
3.) Oregon St - 56
4.) LSU - 70
The #1 seed technically got the toughest draw. Here are each team's three top challengers to get to Omaha:
1.) UNC - USCe, Clemson, Florida Atlantic
2.) Vandy - Louisville, Miami, Georgia Tech
3.) Oregon St - Arkansas, Kansas St, Texas A&M
4.) LSU - Virginia Tech, ULL, Oklahoma
Which looks better to you, #1 or #4?
Make the top 8, host throughout. After that matchups matter a hell of a lot more than seeding, and being the higher seed seldom gains you anything on who you draw.
This post was edited on 5/27/13 at 11:01 pm
Posted on 5/27/13 at 11:18 pm to eelsuee
Some on this board were saying that there is no difference between a #2 seed and a #3 seed. Some also said that after #1 the parings were based on geography and not how good the teams are. I was showing that the average RPI of a #1 seed is 9, the average RPI of a #2 seed is 28.7, the average RPI of a #3 seed is 50.7 and the average RPI of a #4 seed is 147.
It is better to be a #2 seed than a #3 seed because you will draw an easier opponent on average. The same is true of the top 8 national seeds. The higher your seeding the easier opponent you will draw on average. I am not going to go back to the past ten years and take average RPI just because people on this board can't follow what "on average" means.
It is better to be a #2 seed than a #3 seed because you will draw an easier opponent on average. The same is true of the top 8 national seeds. The higher your seeding the easier opponent you will draw on average. I am not going to go back to the past ten years and take average RPI just because people on this board can't follow what "on average" means.
Posted on 5/27/13 at 11:19 pm to eelsuee
I'm not reading those terrible unformatted stats
Posted on 5/27/13 at 11:22 pm to eelsuee
quote:link?
Some on this board were saying that there is no difference between a #2 seed and a #3 seed.
quote:naw
The same is true of the top 8 national seeds. The higher your seeding the easier opponent you will draw on average.
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