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Message
Star Trek into Darkness: Discussion and SPOILERS thread
Posted on 5/16/13 at 6:19 pm
Posted on 5/16/13 at 6:19 pm
THIS THREAD CONTAINS SPOILERS. DO NOT CLICK ON ME IF YOU DO NOT WANT TO READ SPOILERS
So in the midnight role call thread I so far am the only one disappointed in this film. Maybe it is because I'm just disappointed that they went through all this trouble to reboot the series and give us a new timeline to rehash the previous 2nd movie. But aside from that...
1. When did Spock turn into a fricking action hero? The cold, logical Vulcan is leaping to moving platforms and become an action hero? This is the same guy who just sits in the volcano like the monk who set himself on fire?
2. Why are they hiding the ship in the fricking ocean? Shouldn't it be displacing a massive amount of water in that bay? ETA: this is fricking stupid on my part This is something we've never seen a Starfleet ship do when observing a planet, because it's dumb, but what was the motivation?
3. What was Khan's motivation basically at any stage? I get the attacking the "archives" so he can attack the Admiral, but then why beam to Kronos? Is his plan to start a war between Starfleet and the Klingon Empire? If so, why not let them get caught?
3b. What the frick is Khan doing backstabbing Kirk on the bridge of the Drednaut class ship? Why not wait until you have your crew in hand?
4. Why are there no Klingon ships within 20 minutes of Kronos? Why are there no other ships around Earth? Everyone just stays totally unaware? Even after the last movie when the Romulans brought the drill to Earth we didn't set up a perimeter defense?
5. What the frick is going on with the Enterprise falling to Earth? They said they were 300,000 km away (so basically the moon), and it took longer than the van hitting the water in Inception. Not to mention I do not totally understand the physics behind it, either. Why didn't it ever change in magnitude?
6. frick, more later
So in the midnight role call thread I so far am the only one disappointed in this film. Maybe it is because I'm just disappointed that they went through all this trouble to reboot the series and give us a new timeline to rehash the previous 2nd movie. But aside from that...
1. When did Spock turn into a fricking action hero? The cold, logical Vulcan is leaping to moving platforms and become an action hero? This is the same guy who just sits in the volcano like the monk who set himself on fire?
2. Why are they hiding the ship in the fricking ocean? Shouldn't it be displacing a massive amount of water in that bay? ETA: this is fricking stupid on my part This is something we've never seen a Starfleet ship do when observing a planet, because it's dumb, but what was the motivation?
3. What was Khan's motivation basically at any stage? I get the attacking the "archives" so he can attack the Admiral, but then why beam to Kronos? Is his plan to start a war between Starfleet and the Klingon Empire? If so, why not let them get caught?
3b. What the frick is Khan doing backstabbing Kirk on the bridge of the Drednaut class ship? Why not wait until you have your crew in hand?
4. Why are there no Klingon ships within 20 minutes of Kronos? Why are there no other ships around Earth? Everyone just stays totally unaware? Even after the last movie when the Romulans brought the drill to Earth we didn't set up a perimeter defense?
5. What the frick is going on with the Enterprise falling to Earth? They said they were 300,000 km away (so basically the moon), and it took longer than the van hitting the water in Inception. Not to mention I do not totally understand the physics behind it, either. Why didn't it ever change in magnitude?
6. frick, more later
This post was edited on 5/17/13 at 2:47 pm
33
Posted on 5/16/13 at 6:21 pm to The Easter Bunny
they go back in time and almost don't come back.
Posted on 5/16/13 at 6:44 pm to The Easter Bunny
quote:
3b. What the frick is Khan doing backstabbing Kirk on the bridge of the Drednaut class ship? Why not wait until you have your crew in hand?
I agree with most of your issues but not this one.
Scotty and Kirk betrayed him first and stunned him.
Why would he think he was still going to get his crew back after that?
This post was edited on 5/16/13 at 6:45 pm
Posted on 5/16/13 at 6:51 pm to The Easter Bunny
It's always bugged me that Star Trek Earth never really had defenses and the way they operate pretty much prevents fleet presence. The way I see it - there really aren't big fleets to defend anything in Star Trek. It is questionable that there wasn't at least one ship hanging around Earth that could have checked out the battle next to the moon.
Posted on 5/16/13 at 8:16 pm to The Easter Bunny
Overall, I liked it, it was a fun movie I had a few issues, but none of which in any detracted from the movie.
One of the first things that struck me is that pretty much every scene (dialogue wise) with Uhura was pretty fricking terrible. She had the worst lines all throughout the movie.
I kinda can get onboard with this sentiment. I was OK with it till the "KHAN!!" moment - not Quinto's best moment as an actor. I was OK with the "action" part, I would have preferred that the character would have done the same yet still remain that cold, emotionless being in the process - there was far too much emotion in his facial expressions, and I think it somewhat stole something from the spirit of the character.
Once again, as the antagonist, I was perfectly OK with this, it kept the story going nicely
and then damn - Alice Eve has firmly knocked Beckinsale off my pedestal, after many years. My Lord, she is just ridiculously hot, it is a crime how hot she is.
One of the first things that struck me is that pretty much every scene (dialogue wise) with Uhura was pretty fricking terrible. She had the worst lines all throughout the movie.
quote:
When did Spock turn into a fricking action hero?
I kinda can get onboard with this sentiment. I was OK with it till the "KHAN!!" moment - not Quinto's best moment as an actor. I was OK with the "action" part, I would have preferred that the character would have done the same yet still remain that cold, emotionless being in the process - there was far too much emotion in his facial expressions, and I think it somewhat stole something from the spirit of the character.
quote:good question, and there's likely not a good answer, but I really didnt care.
Why are they hiding the ship in the fricking ocean?
quote:that's how I took it - fueled by revenge, he wanted to ensure the death of certain people, get his peeps back and start a war all at the same time. I think the Spock-Spock scene somewhat cleared that up for me - "look this guy is fricking batshit crazy and just wants to hurt as many people as he can"
Is his plan to start a war between Starfleet and the Klingon Empire?
Once again, as the antagonist, I was perfectly OK with this, it kept the story going nicely
quote:110% agree - what the hell? There was no excuse for this at all, are these two worlds so inept, they cant detect large ships? When they were human cannonballing from ship to ship, they could see every last hunk of metal. shite, even today, NORAD can track most shite in the atmosphere. That was not thought out well at all.
Why are there no Klingon ships within 20 minutes of Kronos? Why are there no other ships around Earth?
and then damn - Alice Eve has firmly knocked Beckinsale off my pedestal, after many years. My Lord, she is just ridiculously hot, it is a crime how hot she is.
Posted on 5/16/13 at 8:22 pm to sbr2
quote:
It's always bugged me that Star Trek Earth never really had defenses and the way they operate pretty much prevents fleet presence. The way I see it - there really aren't big fleets to defend anything in Star Trek. It is questionable that there wasn't at least one ship hanging around Earth that could have checked out the battle next to the moon.
The battle of Wolf 359 occurred in sector 001 (Sol System) There is a fleet defense in the sector, but not always near earth.
The main defense systems are supposed to be near Jupiter orbit.
Posted on 5/16/13 at 8:30 pm to Napoleon
Refresh my memory on what movie/series that occurred in. Was that in the previous Star Trek?
Posted on 5/16/13 at 8:38 pm to The Easter Bunny
None of your points bothered me or detracted from my enjoyment of this excellent movie...
I never understand how people's enjoyment can be hindered by logic issues when the movie requires complete suspension of dis-belief in the first place.
I do understand your concerns about a fundamental change to the profile of a beloved character although you could probably chalk up Spock' s differences to youth...
I thought this movie was great...
I never understand how people's enjoyment can be hindered by logic issues when the movie requires complete suspension of dis-belief in the first place.
I do understand your concerns about a fundamental change to the profile of a beloved character although you could probably chalk up Spock' s differences to youth...
I thought this movie was great...
Posted on 5/16/13 at 8:48 pm to thekid
quote:
I never understand how people's enjoyment can be hindered by logic issues when the movie requires complete suspension of dis-belief in the first place.
yeah, that often amuses me in these kind of threads.
I mean...there is no such thing as "reality" in a science fiction movie.
Posted on 5/16/13 at 8:50 pm to sbr2
quote:
Refresh my memory on what movie/series that occurred in. Was that in the previous Star Trek?
Wolf 359 was in the next generation series...
...while the OPs complaint about lack of defenses is somewhat valid...and my only real quibble with the movie...suffice to say it's not a giant leap in logic that the bad guy (no spoilers) could have dispatched all the defense forces...somewhere else.
Posted on 5/16/13 at 10:25 pm to Uncle Stu
quote:
I would have preferred that the character would have done the same yet still remain that cold, emotionless being in the process - there was far too much emotion in his facial expressions, and I think it somewhat stole something from the spirit of the character.
Vulcans are generally more sensitive and vulnerable to their emotions than humans.
With that said, you have to look at the arc of Spock's character in the context of the film. What happened in the very first action sequence of the film? We see Spock about to sacrifice himself to effectively complete their mission, while suppressing all emotion (as expected) in the process.
In subsequent scenes, Spock is questioned by other members of the Enterprise as to why he doesn't allow himself to "feel". He reveals that he does indeed feel, just not ostensibly, and instead elects not to subject himself to the effects of such emotions.
With that established, we're lead into the final scene, where Spock is watching an irradiated Kirk wither away. The emotional puissance of this scene is greatly enhanced by the fact that Spock doesn't have a "choice" this time around - the emotionality of the moment completely consumed him and didn't allow him the opportunity to selectively silence his emotions.
By deprogramming himself from premeditated reactions, and subjecting himself fully to the power of his emotions, he was able to catch Kahn, and, ultimately, save Kirk's life.
This final scene mirrors what we see in the beginning - Kirk subjecting himself to his own emotions and intuition in saving Spock from the volcano. Instead of following "protocol", Kirk, expectedly, allows his emotional motor to take control of the situation. This scene, along with the the crew's interrogation of Spock over his robotic nature in dismal scenarios, presages the conclusion to Spock's arc within the film.
Posted on 5/16/13 at 11:24 pm to The Easter Bunny
1. I don't know shite about Star Trek but I kinda wondered this. I just assumed it was like the Matrix (Spok is like a genius right) where he is just this perfect fighter who knows every martial arts ever created.
2. You know how big a ship would have to be to displace enough water to make it noticeable in a damn ocean? I bet all the naval vessels in the entire world barely raise the ocean a few centimeters. It's a perfect hiding spot.
3. Make them get into a war I assumed. Seems like he also wanted them to send that ship so he could get his crew back.
3B. They just shot him.
4. No clue. No civilization, regardless of time ever seems to have any good radar capabilities in movies.
2. You know how big a ship would have to be to displace enough water to make it noticeable in a damn ocean? I bet all the naval vessels in the entire world barely raise the ocean a few centimeters. It's a perfect hiding spot.
3. Make them get into a war I assumed. Seems like he also wanted them to send that ship so he could get his crew back.
3B. They just shot him.
4. No clue. No civilization, regardless of time ever seems to have any good radar capabilities in movies.
Posted on 5/16/13 at 11:27 pm to FootballNostradamus
quote:
It's a perfect hiding spot.
or.......in...orbit...in..outer..space
that's probably a good hiding spot as well
Posted on 5/17/13 at 12:00 am to FootballNostradamus
quote:
I don't know shite about Star Trek but I kinda wondered this. I just assumed it was like the Matrix (Spok is like a genius right) where he is just this perfect fighter who knows every martial arts ever created.
Vulcans are trained in specific, diacritical forms of hand to hand combat. One frequently employed technique is the "nerve pinch".
We saw Spock execute this technique in the first film on Kirk, which incapacitated him immediately. He also attempted it on Kahn with less than ideal results.
This post was edited on 5/17/13 at 12:02 am
Posted on 5/17/13 at 12:22 am to Uncle Stu
quote:
Or.......in...orbit...in..outer..space
That's probably a good hiding spot as well
I'm not saying they're aren't alternatives, but it wasn't some laughable move and it certainly wasn't ridiculous because the damn water would rise from the displacement of one fvcking ship.
They also said the volcano was messing with their transporter abilities so I assume it might mess with their communications were they to be in orbit, who knows?
Posted on 5/17/13 at 12:35 am to FootballNostradamus
well, now that I realize that the no talent arse-clown Lindelof had a hand in writing this script, I realize it is pointless to try and question plot holes and illogical trains of thought that go nowhere
any attempt to wrap your brain around some sense of understanding went right out the window once he got on board
I enjoyed the movie, it was fun
any attempt to wrap your brain around some sense of understanding went right out the window once he got on board
I enjoyed the movie, it was fun
Posted on 5/17/13 at 12:51 am to FootballNostradamus
quote:
I'm not saying they're aren't alternatives, but it wasn't some laughable move and it certainly wasn't ridiculous because the damn water would rise from the displacement of one fvcking ship.
its a big arse ocean doubt the water would rise that much unless they were in a lake I haven't seen it yet so this post might be useless going this weekend.
Posted on 5/17/13 at 1:09 am to bulldog95
quote:
It's a big arse ocean doubt the water would rise that much unless they were in a lake I haven't seen it yet so this post might be useless going this weekend.
You misread what I said. This was precisely what I was trying to say. Do people really think a ship is enough to make the ocean surface rise? Lol.
Posted on 5/17/13 at 1:19 am to Napoleon
quote:
he battle of Wolf 359 occurred in sector 001 (Sol System)
No it didn't. Hence the name Battle of Wolf 359. It's located a few light years away from our solar system.
As for no defenses, it's idiotic. Apparently, since they're not war-like, they can't take common sense precautions without falling into tyranny or some such nonsense. IIRC DS9 did some episodes on something akin to that.
Posted on 5/17/13 at 1:27 am to bbrownso
quote:
As for no defenses, it's idiotic. Apparently, since they're not war-like, they can't take common sense precautions without falling into tyranny or some such nonsense. IIRC DS9 did some episodes on something akin to that.
Again, my lone quibble with the movie.
The Federation is not warlike. I get that.
Problem is..everyone else around them is certainly warlike.
Further, they fought a war with the Romulans in this timeline...and the Romulans fought them to a standstill including doing some serious damage to earth.
So the lack of defenses is surprising...that being said...im sure the main bad guy made sure those defenses were down or off chasing their tails.
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