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Started By
Message
re: Kings/Sonics Saga Update: Kings stay, Seattle shut out
Posted on 5/12/13 at 3:58 am to corndeaux
Posted on 5/12/13 at 3:58 am to corndeaux
quote:
The NBA has to approve the sale- even for a minority share. I doubt Stern et al give a frick about what the Maloofs want at this point.
Yes, but the NBA can't force the Maloofs to sell the team to the Sacramento group unless they take them to court. I would think that if the NBA is willing to go to court, then the Seattle group would be willing to go to court to enforce their sale agreement and the whole anti-trust issue.
quote:
The Mickey Arison Twitter exchange is a good line on what the committe is thinking. Its not about Seattle. Its about Sacramento stepping up and doing everything the NBA asked for 2 years now
I can see that. The problem is though that the arena plan Sacramento has is far behind the Seattle arena plan. The Sacramento offer is also much less than the Seattle offer, plus they still don't have their full money is escrow yet. And it hasn't been 2 years, it's been about 2 months. Their whole group and arena deal have literally been put together in the past couple of months.
quote:
As for the 4-3 vote, that's not a fact at all. The guy who broke it is, big shocker here, a Seattle reporter. The NBA has already called it a "total fabrication."
Well of course the NBA isn't going to ever say anything different. There have been multiple people saying that the vote wasn't unanimous, but it was announced as unanimous.
This whole thing is pretty fascinating to me. Stern always gets his way and he wants the team to stay in Sacramento. With the Seattle group offering $126 million in relocation fees plus a higher valuation in the franchise, Stern has to convince every owner to vote against a $4.3 million personal check, an increase in their franchise's value, and a much larger TV market.
If Stern shuts down these 2 offers, I believe that the Seattle group will take the NBA to court as it will be their last resort. They want to avoid that at all costs as it will likely permanently burn their bridge to getting an NBA team, although it might force the NBA to give Seattle an expansion team.
1
Posted on 5/12/13 at 9:07 am to TDawg1313
quote:
Yes, but the NBA can't force the Maloofs to sell the team to the Sacramento group unless they take them to court.
True, but if they vote no on relocation, there is no way they will approve even a minority sale to Hansen.
quote:
And it hasn't been 2 years, it's been about 2 months.
The Maloofs backed out of an agreement with Sacramento for a new arena at the last minute and tried to move to Anaheim last year.
LINK
Will be interesting to see what happens. I dont think an extra $4million makes owners swoon, but the total price tag will. On the other hand, local Sac govt has played ball with the league for 2 years and has come up with a credible offer. If they cant keep their team, what incentive do other local govts have to play ball in the future?
Using my crystal ball, even with the new offer I doubt they approve relocation and if so, the Seattle group will not get any piece of the team. Maloofs are broke. Stern will call their bluff on only wanting to sell to Hansen. Are they willing to hemorrhage more money just because everyone in Sacramento hates them for being awful?
The whole thing amazes me. Why doesnt Hansen just push hard for expansion? Both cities deserve a team
Posted on 5/12/13 at 12:17 pm to corndeaux
quote:
Using my crystal ball, even with the new offer I doubt they approve relocation and if so, the Seattle group will not get any piece of the team.
Why? The Seattle offer is far superior to the Sacramento one, so much superior in fact that it would be in the best interest of the other owners to approve relocation. Before the deals were comparable enough to where it might have been a difficult decision, but it would almost be ridiculous for them to vote against it now.
And what David Stern wants is irrelevant. He's nothing more than an employee of the owners.
Posted on 5/12/13 at 12:42 pm to corndeaux
quote:
True, but if they vote no on relocation, there is no way they will approve even a minority sale to Hansen.
I agree with this. I don't think they will approve the Seattle group for the 20% if they deny them their full offer. My opinion is that this was a power play by the Maloofs (most likely thought up by the Seattle group) to show that they will not sell the team to Sacramento no matter what if the NBA denies their sale agreement.
quote:
The Maloofs backed out of an agreement with Sacramento for a new arena at the last minute and tried to move to Anaheim last year.
LINK
Will be interesting to see what happens. I dont think an extra $4million makes owners swoon, but the total price tag will. On the other hand, local Sac govt has played ball with the league for 2 years and has come up with a credible offer. If they cant keep their team, what incentive do other local govts have to play ball in the future?
This is a completely new arena deal that didn't get brought up until after the Maloofs and the Seattle group had a binding contract to sell the team. Same with the Sacramento investors group. That was not put together until after a sale was agreed upon.
quote:
Using my crystal ball, even with the new offer I doubt they approve relocation and if so, the Seattle group will not get any piece of the team. Maloofs are broke. Stern will call their bluff on only wanting to sell to Hansen. Are they willing to hemorrhage more money just because everyone in Sacramento hates them for being awful?
At this point they don't really have a choice unless they plan on enforcing it in court. There's nothing the NBA can do to force the Maloofs to sell the team to the Sacramento group otherwise.And $65 million more for the Maloofs is a pretty big deal.
quote:
The whole thing amazes me. Why doesnt Hansen just push hard for expansion? Both cities deserve a team
The NBA told him no expansion, which gave him no choice but to fight to uphold his sale agreement. I agree that both cities deserve a team. I think the easiest and least messy way out of this by now is to honor the sale agreement between Seattle and the Maloofs and then promise the Sacramento group an expansion team if they actually can get that arena built.
Posted on 5/12/13 at 12:53 pm to TulaneTigerFan
quote:
Why? The Seattle offer is far superior to the Sacramento one, so much superior in fact that it would be in the best interest of the other owners to approve relocation. Before the deals were comparable enough to where it might have been a difficult decision, but it would almost be ridiculous for them to vote against it now.
Yep. The Seattle offer blows the Sacramento offer out of the water. $625 million for the team, $126 million relocation fee, and a promise to pay into revenue sharing every year.
quote:
And what David Stern wants is irrelevant. He's nothing more than an employee of the owners.
Eh, I still think he is the one running the show and is highly influential.
I read a theory that makes sense to me. The NBA knew that they can't interject and deny the sale. They played Ballmer knowing that he would throw money at it and up the offer like crazy. In the end, Stern walks away having a chunk of cash, raising the values of every franchise, getting the NBA back into a large market, all while looking like he did everything he could to save Sacramento. Sacramento is pissed at the Maloofs, not Stern, and Seattle is just happy to have the Sonics back. Seems to me like something that Stern would do
Posted on 5/12/13 at 12:55 pm to TDawg1313
quote:
Seems to me like something that Stern would do
That actually does sound like something he'd do. He's like an evil genius.
I do agree with you that he's highly influential. This deal is just so much better for the owners that if they want it to go down it's going to happen. I don't think he has enough sway to prevent it.
Posted on 5/12/13 at 1:24 pm to TDawg1313
quote:
This is a completely new arena deal that didn't get brought up until after the Maloofs and the Seattle group had a binding contract to sell the team
Wait a minute here. The Maloofs stonewalled the city last year and at least one group that wanted to buy and keep the team in Sacramento. Then they repeatedly said they were not selling to anyone. Then they come out of nowhere with a Seattle agreement, which Sacramento matches in short order.
You can want a team in Seattle and thats fine. But acting like Sacramento has been asleep at the wheel (like Seattle was) is just blatantly false. There has been a multi year effort, in coordination with the NBA, to get a new arena to keep the team in town. That is why the NBA does not want to relocate- the city cooperated.
quote:
And $65 million more for the Maloofs is a pretty big deal.
If the league blocks relocation, the Maloofs have 2 choices: sell to Sacramento group or continue to lose money.
Posted on 5/12/13 at 1:30 pm to TulaneTigerFan
quote:
Why?
quote:
local Sac govt has played ball with the league for 2 years and has come up with a credible offer. If they cant keep their team, what incentive do other local govts have to play ball in the future?
quote:
so much superior in fact that it would be in the best interest of the other owners to approve relocation
I don't buy that. is anyone else desperate enough to buy a small market team for $625million besides Hansen? Who is paying that for the Bucks or the Wolves? Hornets and Grizz were sold for about $340million just last year.
Posted on 5/12/13 at 1:45 pm to corndeaux
quote:
Wait a minute here. The Maloofs stonewalled the city last year and at least one group that wanted to buy and keep the team in Sacramento. Then they repeatedly said they were not selling to anyone. Then they come out of nowhere with a Seattle agreement, which Sacramento matches in short order.
I cant speak for what happened before the Seattle group got involved. I do know that their current arena plan that they are pitching as well as their investor group were put together after the sale.
quote:
You can want a team in Seattle and thats fine. But acting like Sacramento has been asleep at the wheel (like Seattle was) is just blatantly false. There has been a multi year effort, in coordination with the NBA, to get a new arena to keep the team in town. That is why the NBA does not want to relocate- the city cooperated.
Like I said, I don't know how it all went down in Sacramento besides the past few months. I do know that their current plan was just recently thrown together though. Calling Seattle asleep at the wheel is ignorant though. Stern tried to play his petty arena game with Seattle and Seattle told him to shove it. They just remodeled the Key Arena less that 10 years before he called it out of date. There's actually a video of Stern calling it "state of the art" after it was remodeled. Plus Seattle wasn't going to be putting any public monies into a new arena when they had just remodeled the current one. Stern then made an example out of Seattle by allowing everything to go down so he can now show what happens if you don't do what I say.
quote:
If the league blocks relocation, the Maloofs have 2 choices: sell to Sacramento group or continue to lose money.
3) Wait for the Seattle group to bring the sales agreement to court.
This week is going to be pretty crazy to follow. I think I'll just continually update this thread with news regarding this situation
Posted on 5/12/13 at 1:51 pm to TDawg1313
definitely should keep updating this thread for all the craziness thats sure to happen
seattle definitely got railroaded by stern/bennett- know someone who worked legal in the nba during that and he called it a sham.
just wish they would keep the kings in Sacramento, expand to seattle, and call it a day. could even work expansion into the new tv deal
seattle definitely got railroaded by stern/bennett- know someone who worked legal in the nba during that and he called it a sham.
just wish they would keep the kings in Sacramento, expand to seattle, and call it a day. could even work expansion into the new tv deal
Posted on 5/12/13 at 1:55 pm to corndeaux
quote:
just wish they would keep the kings in Sacramento, expand to seattle, and call it a day. could even work expansion into the new tv deal
This is the best solution and everyone knows it and hopes for it. Since the Seattle arena deal is more solid, I could see the Kings moving to Seattle though and Sacramento getting a promise of expansion if the arena plans come through. The NBA just does not want to expand right now.
Posted on 5/12/13 at 8:42 pm to TulaneTigerFan
quote:
And what David Stern wants is irrelevant. He's nothing more than an employee of the owners.
I've never seen a boss fined by his employees.
Posted on 5/13/13 at 10:48 pm to JabarkusRussell
Quick update on what happened today. The relocation committee had a conference call and didn't change their recommendation on the Kings moving... which isn't a surprise.
Nothing scheduled for tomorrow.
Wednesday is when we should get a lot of news. Sacramento and Seattle each get to make a final pitch to the owners who will then vote on the relocation and I think the sale. I haven't been able to find anyone saying that they will vote on the sale for sure.
What I expect to happen is that they deny relocation, deny the sale, deny the backup offer, and deny Hansen's 7% purchase of the Kings from bankruptcy court. I just really think the NBA intended to use the Seattle group as a pawn to get Sacramento to get a new arena and new owners. If the Seattle group is denied, I fully expect them to take the NBA to court over the sale.
It's the general thought that the Seattle group will not stop their push until one of these things happen:
1) Their sale agreement is approved
2) Expansion is guaranteed for Seattle
3) A judge denies their lawsuit
Nothing scheduled for tomorrow.
Wednesday is when we should get a lot of news. Sacramento and Seattle each get to make a final pitch to the owners who will then vote on the relocation and I think the sale. I haven't been able to find anyone saying that they will vote on the sale for sure.
What I expect to happen is that they deny relocation, deny the sale, deny the backup offer, and deny Hansen's 7% purchase of the Kings from bankruptcy court. I just really think the NBA intended to use the Seattle group as a pawn to get Sacramento to get a new arena and new owners. If the Seattle group is denied, I fully expect them to take the NBA to court over the sale.
It's the general thought that the Seattle group will not stop their push until one of these things happen:
1) Their sale agreement is approved
2) Expansion is guaranteed for Seattle
3) A judge denies their lawsuit
This post was edited on 5/13/13 at 10:49 pm
Posted on 5/14/13 at 10:17 pm to TDawg1313
LINK
Looks like its all over for Seattle this time and possibly the future.
On the lawsuit:
on ballmer/hansen's upping the bid:
Looks like its all over for Seattle this time and possibly the future.
On the lawsuit:
quote:
The second and more important factor in increasing the bid, sources say, is that it raised the idea of a Maloof antitrust challenge should the family not be allowed by the NBA to sell to the highest bidder. League sources say that the NBA has planned for this contingency, and while the potential litigation would always play a role in their decision-making, the ammunition the league would have against the Maloof family in court has made this a mostly benign threat.
quote:
For one, the Maloofs cannot afford to run the Kings under normal conditions, let alone with an empty arena and no sponsors – something we’re told would not be held against the Sacramento market if the impossible scenario of them keeping the team came into play. The family is also indebted to the league to the tune of an estimated $150 million, and the family has done plenty of damage to the league’s reputation on the public subsidy front and in general.
on ballmer/hansen's upping the bid:
quote:
“(Seattle) was in the driver’s seat when it came to potential opportunities with the Bucks or whatever team might face arena or market troubles down the road,” said one league source. “If the league was going to consider expansion, you could have written Seattle’s name in ink to get a team.”Now that Ballmer is leading Seattle down the path of conflict with the NBA, sources aren’t so sure.“You don’t get into a knife fight with the NBA and then ask if you can come hang out in the clubhouse,” said one high-level source. “Ballmer is playing a game of Russian Roulette with SEA’s NBA future. He can’t throw money at the problem like this is Microsoft.”
This post was edited on 5/14/13 at 10:24 pm
Posted on 5/14/13 at 10:58 pm to corndeaux
A whole series of tweets by a guy out of SF on the situation.
A whole lot more on his feed
quote:
Tim Montemayor (@TheMontyShow) tweeted at 8:24 PM on Tue, May 14, 2013:
H&B news: This conversation started yesterday and continued in to this evening after a contact asked me about expansion in #Seattle ...
(LINK )
quote:
Tim Montemayor (@TheMontyShow) tweeted at 8:25 PM on Tue, May 14, 2013:
As I have prev. reported, I was again told H&B have been aware of 2014-15 season but have not been willing to engage in that condo while...
quote:
Tim Montemayor (@TheMontyShow) tweeted at 8:26 PM on Tue, May 14, 2013:
The #NBAKings were still "in play" …they have been aware of expansion for two months, in that time they have fought hard "to keep Sac alive"
quote:
Tim Montemayor (@TheMontyShow) tweeted at 8:26 PM on Tue, May 14, 2013:
However the tone and subject of NBA conversations changed this week after H&B where plainly told their relationship with the #Maloofs ...
quote:
Tim Montemayor (@TheMontyShow) tweeted at 8:28 PM on Tue, May 14, 2013:
had damaged any good will they had built up with other owners in the league who have made it clear to H&B that the #Maloofs are not good...
quote:
Tim Montemayor (@TheMontyShow) tweeted at 8:30 PM on Tue, May 14, 2013:
partners for them and the "side deal" hurt them. H&B were told Monday that their chances of any #NBA ownership was fading fast because they
quote:
Tim Montemayor (@TheMontyShow) tweeted at 8:31 PM on Tue, May 14, 2013:
continue to be aggressive and take steps that go directly against #NBA protocol in this situation…late Monday H&B began a conversation that
quote:
Tim Montemayor (@TheMontyShow) tweeted at 8:32 PM on Tue, May 14, 2013:
was "concessionary" in nature and have "seemingly woken up to the reality of the situation" that the #Maloofs have made them look ...
quote:
Tim Montemayor (@TheMontyShow) tweeted at 8:33 PM on Tue, May 14, 2013:
"Foolish" and it appears the #Maloofs "are directing the H&B groups direction …they were told in no uncertain terms that it was now or nvr
A whole lot more on his feed
Posted on 5/14/13 at 11:03 pm to corndeaux
This shite is gonna get ugly when the owners vote to keep the team in Sacramento
Posted on 5/14/13 at 11:05 pm to corndeaux
Despite the "protocol" concerns, I find it hard to believe that the NBA would permanently shut out a group that just offered to pay essentially double the going rate for one of their teams.
If the NBA is hell bent on letting Sac keep their team, this more than likely ends with an implied promise to Ballmer & Hansen that Seattle is getting fast tracked.
Expect another team to very quickly be put on the market.
If the NBA is hell bent on letting Sac keep their team, this more than likely ends with an implied promise to Ballmer & Hansen that Seattle is getting fast tracked.
Expect another team to very quickly be put on the market.
Posted on 5/14/13 at 11:07 pm to corndeaux
So if Hansen and Ballmer back off and Seattle is eventually granted an expansion team, would the NBA grant another expansion team to round out the total number of teams at 32?
This post was edited on 5/14/13 at 11:07 pm
Posted on 5/14/13 at 11:11 pm to corndeaux
I'm convinced that you're either functionally retarded or have some weird emotional obsession issue against Seattle after reading this thread.
Posted on 5/14/13 at 11:15 pm to TulaneTigerFan
good theory
This post was edited on 5/14/13 at 11:16 pm
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