Benghazi Whistleblowers: Reinforcements told to stand down/Refusal of help | Page 7 | TigerDroppings.com

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MrCarton
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Paradise Valley, MT
Member since Dec 2009
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re: Benghazi Whistleblowers: Reinforcements told to stand down/Refusal of help


quote:

It seams like having your ONLY in-extremis force unavailable out on a training mission is a bit irresponsible.


CIF trains when they aren't working in established theaters. Group CIF companies ( there is more than one) are regionally oriented and train abroad in their regions to advise and assist foreign military in counter terrorism and Direct action.

I think the fancy name and the MSM have blown the cif out of proportion, the CIF is a special forces company tasked almost exclusively with direct action in support of UW/coin operations.









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MrCarton
UNO Fan
Paradise Valley, MT
Member since Dec 2009
2240 posts

re: Benghazi Whistleblowers: Reinforcements told to stand down/Refusal of help


quote:

Being a Soldier on a training exercise is not the same. You may (or may not) have some live ammunition with you. Small arms only ( depending upon what type of range you are at) at best. You would probably not have a full complement of ordnance (combat load) with you. Arranging ground transportation to an airfield, coordinating air transportation, where will you land, how will you be transported to the site, communications procedures, link up procedures with those "in extremis", medical evacuation plans. There are a lot of moving pieces.

I know you meant well. Not even remotely comparable. That is why we build contingency plans and have units on alert status to be prepare for this.


Solid post, full of excellent points!






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GeauxxxTigers23
USA Fan
TeamBunt General Manager
Member since Apr 2013
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re: Benghazi Whistleblowers: Reinforcements told to stand down/Refusal of help


quote:

I think the fancy name and the MSM have blown the cif out of proportion, the CIF is a special forces company tasked almost exclusively with direct action in support of UW/coin operations.


To be honest. I'd never heard of them before. And I've spent time at Stuttgart. Seems like it would be assigned on a rotating basis. "Hey "unit A" you're the CIF this week. Have you shite ready to go", " unit B, you're on deck for next week, enjoy your week off training or chasing arse in Germany or whatever it is you guys do"






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matthew25
Ole Miss Fan
Member since Jun 2012
3447 posts

re: Benghazi Whistleblowers: Reinforcements told to stand down/Refusal of help


Some have alluded to a CIA operation in the area. We know that Stevens and the aide were killed at the Passport Office. Later, 2 CIA security guards were killed at the CIA building while getting 23 CIA employees to safety AND 7 passport employees.

FOX is saying that Stevens was in secret negotiations with CIA and Turkey to move arms to the Rebels in Syria. We didn't want to upset radical Muslims.

30 lives were saved in the rescue effort.

Quote from earlier in the thread:
"Also, they may have been trying to keep unnecessary players, like the Brits, out of it due to some kind of CIA operation in the area. They made a gamble and lost big."






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baybeefeetz
the now
Member since Sep 2009
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re: Benghazi Whistleblowers: Reinforcements told to stand down/Refusal of help


Like I said. Depends on the motivation.





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redandright
Member since Jun 2011
3392 posts

re: Benghazi Whistleblowers: Reinforcements told to stand down/Refusal of help


I'm obviously not a military guy, so am not qualified to discuss "logistics".

But, I do know a little about the political, diplomatic thing.

History will show that the Obama administration ignored threats that had already ocurred, and also the potential for attacks in the most dangerous area in the world, at an especially dangerous time-9/11 anniversary.

History will also show, that Obama was negligent in the handling of the situation once it began, i.e. going to bed, and was callous, going to Las Vegas the day after.

It will also show that his admin lied, misled and colluded with a willing media to keep their incomptence, negligence, and callousness hidden, from a public that is more concerned with "The Bachelor", than with National Security.

It takes too much energy and raises too many uncomfortable "feelings", to pay attention for most people, so they would rather it all just go away, so they can return to their TVs.

They are just as guilty as the media, in protecting an inept and ideologically twisted administration.






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CajunAngele
LSU Fan
Member since Oct 2012
11168 posts

re: Benghazi Whistleblowers: Reinforcements told to stand down/Refusal of help


quote:

History will show that the Obama administration ignored threats that had already ocurred, and also the potential for attacks in the most dangerous area in the world, at an especially dangerous time-9/11 anniversary.

History will also show, that Obama was negligent in the handling of the situation once it began, i.e. going to bed, and was callous, going to Las Vegas the day after.


Fact.

Panetta And Dempsey Highlight Lack Of Communication From Obama On Benghazi - YouTube






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lsu480
LSU Fan
Downtown Scottsdale
Member since Oct 2007
71352 posts

re: Benghazi Whistleblowers: Reinforcements told to stand down/Refusal of help


quote:

a civilian calling the shots? No. He is asked for authorization when necessary. Technically he could jump in and tell all of the reinforcements to stand down, but if you believe he stood down career military without a hellish response you must be one of those conspiracy nuts.


You lost all credibility here. The POTUS is the commander in chief of the US Military, he calls ALL of the shots.






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lsu480
LSU Fan
Downtown Scottsdale
Member since Oct 2007
71352 posts

re: Benghazi Whistleblowers: Reinforcements told to stand down/Refusal of help


quote:

Some have alluded to a CIA operation in the area. We know that Stevens and the aide were killed at the Passport Office. Later, 2 CIA security guards were killed at the CIA building while getting 23 CIA employees to safety AND 7 passport employees. FOX is saying that Stevens was in secret negotiations with CIA and Turkey to move arms to the Rebels in Syria. We didn't want to upset radical Muslims.


This is exactly what happened. There was no "terror attack", this was an arms deal that went to shite and the administration has been trying to cover its arse ever since.






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idlewatcher
LSU Fan
Houston
Member since Jan 2012
9402 posts

re: Benghazi Whistleblowers: Reinforcements told to stand down/Refusal of help


quote:

This is exactly what happened. There was no "terror attack", this was an arms deal that went to shite and the administration has been trying to cover its arse ever since.


How do you figure and why would they choose a volatile Libya for that assignment if that were the case?

I hadn't heard about the arms deal so please shed more light on it if you can.






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Interception
Providence Fan
Member since Nov 2008
11089 posts

re: Benghazi Whistleblowers: Reinforcements told to stand down/Refusal of help


quote:

This is exactly what happened. There was no "terror attack", this was an arms deal that went to shite and the administration has been trying to cover its arse ever since.


There is no question the CIA had an unusual amount of agents in the area. Something doesn't add up about this entire situation when you step back and look at it.






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MrCarton
UNO Fan
Paradise Valley, MT
Member since Dec 2009
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re: Benghazi Whistleblowers: Reinforcements told to stand down/Refusal of help


quote:


To be honest. I'd never heard of them before. And I've spent time at Stuttgart. Seems like it would be assigned on a rotating basis. "Hey "unit A" you're the CIF this week. Have you shite ready to go", " unit B, you're on deck for next week, enjoy your week off training or chasing arse in Germany or whatever it is you guys do"


CIF companies are specialized and have a more focused mission. They are primarily composed if seasoned green berets who have considerable time and experience ON an ODA. They are not interchangeable with other companies. They practice unilateral direct action and are primarily an SF asset, not DOD. That doesn't mean they are not contingency forces, but it does mean that they are almost always under some kind of Sf cmd.

CIF was not responsible for this embassy or its satellite annexes, and was probably in no way prepared to be called up for this mission, though they are extremely talented and well organized. The circumstances were poor to use the cif based on what the public knows right now.






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JohnnyKilroy
New Orleans Pelicans Fan
Member since Oct 2012
8420 posts

re: Benghazi Whistleblowers: Reinforcements told to stand down/Refusal of help


quote:

There is no question the CIA had an unusual amount of agents in the area. Something doesn't add up about this entire situation when you step back and look at it.



And when you consider history, it is almost foolish to believe that this couldn't have been the scenario. I'm not saying it was, but dismissing it out of hand is ignoring history imo.

The US government through the CIA has made many a weapons deal with various despots, terror groups, and rebels over the decades.

Not saying it was the case, but it wouldn't shock me in the least if this was some sort of arms deal gone sour situation, and the O admin did everything they could in the wake of the attack to distort what actually happened. This scenario is at least plausible.






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Interception
Providence Fan
Member since Nov 2008
11089 posts

re: Benghazi Whistleblowers: Reinforcements told to stand down/Refusal of help


This is what Porter Goss former CIA Director had to say.

While the source of the weapons used to attack the consulate is part of an ongoing investigation, former CIA Director Porter Goss told Fox News there was no question some of the weapons that flooded Libya during the uprising are making their way to Syria -- adding that the U.S. intelligence community must be aware, given their presence in Benghazi.

"Absolutely. I think there's no question that there's a lot of networking going on. And ... of course we know it."

LINK






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Interception
Providence Fan
Member since Nov 2008
11089 posts

re: Benghazi Whistleblowers: Reinforcements told to stand down/Refusal of help


quote:

On the night of Sept. 11, in what would become his last known public meeting, Stevens met with the Turkish Consul General Ali Sait Akin, and escorted him out of the consulate front gate one hour before the assault began at approximately 9:35 p.m. local time.

Although what was discussed at the meeting is not public, a source told Fox News that Stevens was in Benghazi to negotiate a weapons transfer, an effort to get SA-7 missiles out of the hands of Libya-based extremists. And although the negotiation said to have taken place may have had nothing to do with the attack on the consulate later that night or the Libyan mystery ship, it could explain why Stevens was travelling in such a volatile region on the 11th anniversary of the 9/11 attacks.

When asked to comment, a State Department spokeswoman dismissed the idea, saying Stevens was there for diplomatic meetings, and to attend the opening of a cultural center.

A congressional source also cautioned against drawing premature conclusions about the consulate attack and the movement of weapons from Libya to Syria via Turkey -- noting they may in fact be two separate and distinct events. But the source acknowledged the timing and the meeting between the Turkish diplomat and Stevens was "unusual."

According to an initial Sept. 14 report by the Times of London, Al Entisar was carrying 400 tons of cargo. Some of it was humanitarian, but also reportedly weapons, described by the report as the largest consignment of weapons headed for Syria's rebels on the frontlines.

"This is the Libyan ship ... which is basically carrying weapons that are found in Libya," said Walid Phares, a Fox News Middle East and terrorism analyst. "So the ship came all the way up to Iskenderun in Turkey. Now from the information that is available, there was aid material, but there were also weapons, a lot of weapons."

The cargo reportedly included surface-to-air anti-aircraft missiles, RPG's and Russian-designed shoulder-launched missiles known as MANPADS.

The ship's Libyan captain told the Times of London that "I can only talk about the medicine and humanitarian aid" for the Syrian rebels. It was reported there was a fight about the weapons and who got what "between the free Syrian Army and the Muslim Brotherhood."



LINK






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matthew25
Ole Miss Fan
Member since Jun 2012
3447 posts

re: Benghazi Whistleblowers: Reinforcements told to stand down/Refusal of help


Your last sentence about the Muslim brotherhood.

I think of them like the Mafia. They were looking for a portion of the weapons and would grant them safe passage to Syria.

Stevens made no deal with the Muslims. One hour after the Turkish (also a Muslim) cleared the compound, the first killings began. Nine hours or so later, they attacked the secret CIA building. Each of the "riots" took about an hour.

Then the townspeople came in and took Stevens to the hospital, where he died.






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Wolfhound45
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Member since Nov 2009
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re: Benghazi Whistleblowers: Reinforcements told to stand down/Refusal of help


quote:

MrCarton


Nailed it. As usual.

What is more concerning is the SF element that had been supporting the DOS compound was not used when they were readily available (in Tripoi) and knew the terrain (physical and human). They were the organization that was not permitted to deploy and could have made a difference.






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GeauxxxTigers23
USA Fan
TeamBunt General Manager
Member since Apr 2013
24245 posts

re: Benghazi Whistleblowers: Reinforcements told to stand down/Refusal of help


quote:

What is more concerning is the SF element that had been supporting the DOS compound


I haven't been following this as closely as you guys have. How do we know the SF element in Tripoli was in direct support of DOS? It makes sense logically of course. But I just recently heard about these guys.






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Wolfhound45
LSU Fan
Member since Nov 2009
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re: Benghazi Whistleblowers: Reinforcements told to stand down/Refusal of help


quote:

I haven't been following this as closely as you guys have. How do we know the SF element in Tripoli was in direct support of DOS? It makes sense logically of course. But I just recently heard about these guys


There was an SF element led by Lt Col Gibson. It is my understanding they were Army National Guard on an ADOS (it is a reserve component funding mechanism) tour. They had done several months in Libya but their mission had been discontinued. Apparently they were still in country but not permitted to deploy from Tripoli to Benghazi.

Bottom line, they would have been prepared to respond to an emergency.

Need to find some links that explain further.






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MrCarton
UNO Fan
Paradise Valley, MT
Member since Dec 2009
2240 posts

re: Benghazi Whistleblowers: Reinforcements told to stand down/Refusal of help


quote:

What is more concerning is the SF element that had been supporting the DOS compound was not used when they were readily available (in Tripoi) and knew the terrain (physical and human). They were the organization that was not permitted to deploy and could have made a difference.


So the old guy rumor mill generated some poop on this situation right after it happened. Also, I believe one of the officers involved mentioned it in response to the DOS decision to remove the team that was there before the attacks. I guess the plan was to use contracted locals in place of a proper team. He was not happy, the team was not happy, the "other agency" guy who had responsibility for the security situation was certainly not happy.

ETA: (I am talking about events prior to the attack here)

I hope DOS has adopted a more open attitude when it comes to issues like this.

Sometimes when I think the military is slow to learn from mistakes I look at some of the other agencies and it puts things in perspective.



This post was edited on 5/8 at 2:53 pm


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