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Message
re: Draft Picks Review
Posted on 4/28/13 at 11:14 pm to LSUFreek
Posted on 4/28/13 at 11:14 pm to LSUFreek
Jenkins may not have a bunch of sacks, but I bet he'll command a shite-ton of attention. You don't want to get sacked by anyone, but you DEFINITELY don't want a 360 lb guy coming right up the middle on you.
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Posted on 4/29/13 at 1:52 am to bonethug0108
quote:
but I think Bunkley sees the most snaps at NT.
Bunkley barely weighs over 300 pounds. If he is our primary NT then Jenkins wasn't too hot of a pick.
Posted on 4/29/13 at 6:50 am to GOON
quote:
It wasn't Ivory AND 2 4th rounders. If was essentially Ivory and 1 4th round pick.
Um...OK but do we get the guy without trading Ivory?
Posted on 4/29/13 at 7:23 am to goatmilker
quote:
Um...OK but do we get the guy without trading Ivory?
We don't get a 4th rounder without trading Ivory, but that isn't the same as the pick costing us Ivory + 2 4th rounders. It's one or the other.
Posted on 4/29/13 at 7:49 am to blueslover
quote:
meet Mr. 360+ LB monster.
He wont play if he's weighing 360.
Posted on 4/29/13 at 8:16 am to JPLIII
I still think he would play...just not move 
Posted on 4/29/13 at 8:26 am to goatmilker
“I tell them you have nothing to worry about," he said when asked what he tells NFL teams about his weight issues. "It was the only time my football career ever that I was that high. It was the highest I had ever been at in my life. I didn’t have the right knowledge of how I should have my weight and wasn’t educated enough to keep my weight down. That’s where I want to play so I can get the job down efficiently. They don’t have anything to worry about; I’m going to do it.”
LINK
346 at the Combine
LINK
346 at the Combine
Posted on 4/29/13 at 11:53 am to NIH
quote:I said many times what Ryan likes to do at the nose(and ends) and even went into depth his situations in Oakland and Cleveland. I know some people disagree and think that he uses a 2-gap nose(and I'm not saying he never goes 2-gap; it's not his primary scheme though).
Bunkley barely weighs over 300 pounds. If he is our primary NT then Jenkins wasn't too hot of a pick.
Jenkins is a great pick because he will(hopefully) be a dominant run stuffing nose. We have been pretty weak in run defense for a few years now(since Payton's been here we haven't be higher than 12th in yards against, and ypc against hasn't been higher than 16th but was often lower). We've tried to address it before but to no avail.
I'll just leave it at let's see who starts and plays what snaps once the season begins. I often have a very different view on some things than most posters(not needing another OLB, NT situation, Vaccaro being a good pick, Ryan being a great choice for DC(though on those last two people started coming around), etc.) and I know it's not the popular opinion. But it's what I think and without a good argument to sway me it'll stay that way.
This post was edited on 4/29/13 at 11:55 am
Posted on 4/29/13 at 1:03 pm to blueslover
I think this will go down as one of, if not the most, productive draft we've had.
The presence of Kenny Vacarro on the field should make Jenkins better. He won't be inclined to alter his coverage because of the liability of Harper.
Based on what's in front of him on the depth chart, I wouldn't be surprised if Armstead doesn't end up the LT....this year. We don't need him to be great, we just need him to be solid/smart.
Jenkins will need to keep his weight in control. If he does, he'll be an impact player. And by impact, I don't mean with sacks, although that would be a bonus. All we need is for him to take up two blockers when he's in there.
I can easily see Stills with 4 or 5 td's as a rookie. He'll get his share of playing time. That said, I still think we need to look at getting a bigger receiver in the not too distant future.
Rufus, I don't know enough about the kid to have an opinion.
The presence of Kenny Vacarro on the field should make Jenkins better. He won't be inclined to alter his coverage because of the liability of Harper.
Based on what's in front of him on the depth chart, I wouldn't be surprised if Armstead doesn't end up the LT....this year. We don't need him to be great, we just need him to be solid/smart.
Jenkins will need to keep his weight in control. If he does, he'll be an impact player. And by impact, I don't mean with sacks, although that would be a bonus. All we need is for him to take up two blockers when he's in there.
I can easily see Stills with 4 or 5 td's as a rookie. He'll get his share of playing time. That said, I still think we need to look at getting a bigger receiver in the not too distant future.
Rufus, I don't know enough about the kid to have an opinion.
Posted on 4/29/13 at 2:30 pm to JPLIII
quote:
I still think we need to look at getting a bigger receiver in the not too distant future
Hoping that Toon fills this need.
Posted on 4/29/13 at 3:46 pm to bonethug0108
You keep repeating the same crap about Ryan's scheme without answering questions that suggest you are wrong. I'm pretty sure Ryan had a part in drafting this guy who by your own words doesn't fit his system. And again, Bunkley is not the "Ratliff" type of interior rusher you think he is. I would say Payton and Ryan himself know more about what fits his system and what he wants than you do.
This post was edited on 4/29/13 at 4:10 pm
Posted on 4/29/13 at 3:48 pm to blueslover
quote:
346 at the Combine
And Payton said after the pick he thought Jenkins would play at 340 to 345.
Posted on 4/29/13 at 4:07 pm to landrywasbeast30
I answered in great detail a while back his situation with Oakland and Cleveland even providing links.
He runs some 2-gap so Jenkins will get used, but he runs primarily a 1-gap press man attacking scheme with the SS in the box.
He switches it up a good bit like GW did, but if we are talking base defense, that's what it is. That's why Jenkins makes sense and that's why keeping both Harper and M. Jenkins can makes sense even with Vaccaro.
He runs some 2-gap so Jenkins will get used, but he runs primarily a 1-gap press man attacking scheme with the SS in the box.
He switches it up a good bit like GW did, but if we are talking base defense, that's what it is. That's why Jenkins makes sense and that's why keeping both Harper and M. Jenkins can makes sense even with Vaccaro.
Posted on 4/29/13 at 4:09 pm to bonethug0108
In Oakland, he had guys like Ted Washington and 337 pound Terell Sands. Not exactly the kind of guys you are talking about. You will bring up Sapp, but Sapp played DE. We've had this argument before. Burgess was an OLB, even though he is listed at DE. If you go to pro-football-reference and click on Burgess' name, it says "DE-LB". Plus, you bring up Oakland, but you have argued before that he ran a 4-3 in Oakland. Make up your mind.
Personally, I don't think you know what you are talking about. You just click on links that show the depth charts, and that's how you form your opinions. Even though people who actually watched the Raiders play know they ran a 3-4 with guys like Ted Washington at NT, Sapp and Tommy Kelly at DE, and Burgess at OLB. Their roster fits the same type of players as traditional 3-4 players.
Personally, I don't think you know what you are talking about. You just click on links that show the depth charts, and that's how you form your opinions. Even though people who actually watched the Raiders play know they ran a 3-4 with guys like Ted Washington at NT, Sapp and Tommy Kelly at DE, and Burgess at OLB. Their roster fits the same type of players as traditional 3-4 players.
This post was edited on 4/29/13 at 4:15 pm
Posted on 4/29/13 at 4:14 pm to landrywasbeast30
quote:Go read the articles I linked you a while back. He was forced to run a 4-3 in Oakland. He did not run a 3-4.
In Oakland, he had guys like Ted Washington and 337 pound Terell Sands. Not exactly the kind of guys you are talking about. You will bring up Sapp, but Sapp played DE. We've had this argument before. Burgess was an OLB, even though he is listed at DE. If you go to pro-football-reference and click on Burgess' name, it says "DE-LB". Plus, you bring up Oakland, but you have argued before that he ran a 4-3 in Oakland. Make up your mind
The first year he tried Sapp at DE some, but he also played DT next to Washington as the 3 tech and the next year because he bitched so much about it he played ONLY DT in their 4-3.
Burgess played both spots(when Sapp was DE he moved to OLB) but he played mostly DE.
Go do research before jumping my case. In Dallas and Cleveland he ran the same scheme he's bringing here which is what I stated previously.
Posted on 4/29/13 at 4:19 pm to bonethug0108
You are the one who brought up Oakland, and are now saying he ran a 4-3 in Oakland. I know why you are saying he ran a 4-3 with Sapp and Washington at DT's. It's because that's what the depth charts say lol. 285-300 pound DE's. 335-350 pound DT's. That's 3-4 players. 260 pound DE/OLB. But you just go by what the depth chart tells you.
Posted on 4/29/13 at 4:25 pm to landrywasbeast30
quote:No. It's because I looked it up and read articles about it. Ownership and the Head Coach wanted to run a 4-3. I said this before. I never said he ran a 3-4 in Oakland. I also read plenty about Sapp throwing a bitch fit to go back to just being a DT because he hated playing DE.
You are the one who brought up Oakland, and are now saying he ran a 4-3 in Oakland. I know why you are saying he ran a 4-3 with Sapp and Washington at DT's. It's because that's what the depth charts say lol. 285-300 pound DE's. 335-350 pound DT's. That's 3-4 players. 260 pound DE/OLB. But you just go by what the depth chart tells you
Posted on 4/29/13 at 4:26 pm to landrywasbeast30
He had the same traditional 3-4 system in Cleveland, with 340 pound Shaun Rogers as NT lol. Rogers was a traditional NT with the rare ability to rush the passer. He is the exception to the rule. He isn't the prototype of what a NT is or the specific kind of guy Ryan looks for.
Plus, Rogers was already there when Ryan got there, same as Ratliff in Dallas. Not like Ryan went out and picked these guys out specifically for his defense. Those guys were already playing the same positions for the DC's who were there before. If Ryan wanted a "1 gap" NT to rush the passer on the interior, wouldn't Ellis make a hell of a lot more sense than Jenkins or Bunkley? These things just don't add up to your idea of what Ryan wants.
Plus, Rogers was already there when Ryan got there, same as Ratliff in Dallas. Not like Ryan went out and picked these guys out specifically for his defense. Those guys were already playing the same positions for the DC's who were there before. If Ryan wanted a "1 gap" NT to rush the passer on the interior, wouldn't Ellis make a hell of a lot more sense than Jenkins or Bunkley? These things just don't add up to your idea of what Ryan wants.
This post was edited on 4/29/13 at 4:32 pm
Posted on 4/29/13 at 4:30 pm to bonethug0108
quote:
I never said he ran a 3-4 in Oakland
This next quote is what you said in a discussion about what kink of players fits Ryan's 3-4 defense.
quote:
I said many times what Ryan likes to do at the nose(and ends) and even went into depth his situations in Oakland and Cleveland
His NT's in Cleveland and Oakland were Ted Washington, Terell Sands, and Shaun Rogers. Again, I think you don't know what you are talking about.
Posted on 4/29/13 at 4:32 pm to landrywasbeast30
He moved Rogers to DE and asked him to rush the passer. Go look it up.
I provided links once before but if you still don't believe me go do your own research. Forced to run 4-3 in Oakland, moved Rogers to DE in Cleveland and we all know about Dallas.
And your point about Ryan picking these guys, he was brought in after they had those guys in Oakland, Cleveland, and Dallas, as well as here.
And no, Eliis just plain sucks. Bunkley can get off blocks and stuff runs and that's how he made his name. That's what Ryan is looking for.
I provided links once before but if you still don't believe me go do your own research. Forced to run 4-3 in Oakland, moved Rogers to DE in Cleveland and we all know about Dallas.
And your point about Ryan picking these guys, he was brought in after they had those guys in Oakland, Cleveland, and Dallas, as well as here.
And no, Eliis just plain sucks. Bunkley can get off blocks and stuff runs and that's how he made his name. That's what Ryan is looking for.
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