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Message
re: Dell Demps
Posted on 4/15/13 at 9:10 pm to TigerinATL
Posted on 4/15/13 at 9:10 pm to TigerinATL
quote:
All the marginal players in the league that can't get good offers will be dying to be Pelicans.
And what is this gonna do for us and winning? That's what we have now, a lineup of marginal players , save AD and EG possibly.
Demps and Monty have to land some solid, not marginal, players or we will be discussing the same thing next season.
0
Posted on 4/15/13 at 9:12 pm to supe12sta12z
quote:
This will be the first offseason, the team won't be tied to any truly bad contracts. Demps will have flexibility and cap space to mold the roster.
Yeah, I hope danman/brmark don't see any players they like this offseason, because Okafor and ariza would be eating up $22m in cap space next season.
Posted on 4/15/13 at 9:12 pm to THRILLHO
quote:He played a lot of center last year
Much more of a PF before and would have been unlikely to make it a full season at center (and he didn't).
Also Lopez is 7'0" 255, Smith is 7'0" 240. Why couldn't he play center?
And the unlikely to make it a full season is totally speculative
Posted on 4/15/13 at 9:13 pm to THRILLHO
quote:??
Yeah, I hope danman/brmark don't see any players they like this offseason, because Okafor and ariza would be eating up $22m in cap space next season.
I never said that was a bad move
Posted on 4/15/13 at 9:14 pm to danman6336
quote:
shitty moves (re-signing Gordon, falling in love with Rivers at the draft, trading Jack)
You may end up being right in the end, but you have to give these things time. At the time I thought Thornton for Landry was adequate value, especially considering the way he was being used, but 2 years later when Landry left for nothing the trade became a failure in my eyes because if you draft a rotation player or better you need to get more than 3 years of use out of them. Most of these other moves you're wanting to declare failures are still in play. That's not Demps being above criticism, that's your criticism not being convincing enough for most of us to call the results early like you have.
Posted on 4/15/13 at 9:17 pm to danman6336
quote:
He played a lot of center last year
Look at the article I posted. He said he knew he had to put on weight because he was undersized. Throw out any numbers you want, that's straight from the horse's mouth.
quote:
And the unlikely to make it a full season is totally speculative
He played only 17mpg this season and he's still going to miss 31 games this season. Are you saying that if he had started at the 5, he wouldn't have missed significant time? Is the secret to Jason Smith's health playing more?Posted on 4/15/13 at 9:18 pm to TigerinATL
quote:Watching Gordon kick the ball off his own feet every single 4th quarter he's played in and Austin Rivers brick free throws like it's going out of style while Jack wins 6th man of the year was convincing enough for me.
That's not Demps being above criticism, that's your criticism not being convincing enough for most of us to call the results early like you have.
Patience is fine and dandy, but I'm a child of the instant gratification generation, and I need to start seeing some results of Demps' mastery of general managing pretty soon.
Posted on 4/15/13 at 9:20 pm to danman6336
quote:
I never said that was a bad move
You said
quote:
neutral moves (letting Landry leave, trading Ariza and Oak for cap space)
Saying it was a "neutral" move implies that having them on the payroll going into this offseason is just as good as the cap space.
Posted on 4/15/13 at 9:22 pm to THRILLHO
Well it would have been nice to have a slightly competent player at SF this season
I guess I could bump the Oak part of it to good move if that would make you happy
I guess I could bump the Oak part of it to good move if that would make you happy
Posted on 4/15/13 at 9:28 pm to danman6336
quote:
Well it would have been nice to have a slightly competent player at SF this season
To me, that's the key to next season.
I can't see anyone taking on Gordon's max contract so likely he'll still be here. If he doesn't get some of the pressure taken off of him, especially in the 4th, he'll continue to fold like a tent. (And y'all don't give me injuries because the last 15 games or so, he was fit and explosive. He just couldn't finish.)
Posted on 4/15/13 at 9:30 pm to THRILLHO
quote:
That big men typically have higher PER's has no bearing on Jack having 30 PGs ahead of him and Lopez having 16 centers ahead of him.
Correct Still a flawed comparison. Jack is better than several guys that are listed ahead of him (Bynum, Collison, maybe Hill, and Robinson stand out to me) and Lopez is worse than at least half a dozen behind him (Chandler, Sanders, Splitter, Noah, Vucevic, Hibbert)
They are both guys who can help if they play under 30mpg, but if you're counting on more than that regularly from either one, you're in trouble
Posted on 4/15/13 at 11:59 pm to THRILLHO
quote:
Yeah, I hope danman/brmark don't see any players they like this offseason, because Okafor and ariza would be eating up $22m in cap space next season.
You'd need to go back and do your math again. Under my assumptions, K. Martin, Jack and Aminu would come off the books for about 20m in free cap space (minus the holds for two lottery picks). Even if they would have re-signed Jack, that would leave 10+ to add somebody.
Don't forget, the team has 18+ in dead space this season. Besides, I'd rather save the money for next offseason, when the team will be ready to make a major move.
Posted on 4/16/13 at 8:22 am to brmark70816
quote:
1. Accept the Houston trade for Gordon (Motie, Martin and 1st round pick). Basically the same trade OKC got for Harden. Gordon would be gone and the team would have gained a couple of nice pieces..
lol. What? That Houston trade was for Odom, Scola, Martin, and three farts in a brown paper bag.
quote:
Not trade or let Jack or Landry go. This would include trading Ayon for Anderson. For the same money we are playing for Anderson, we could have kept the other 3.
Dude, I was Ayon's biggest fan, but this is dumb. Jack was horrible running a team. I got so tired of watching him dribbling as the shot clock expired. You don't need that kind of "leadership" around a young team. Jack is only marginally better than Gravy, if at all (I think not).
quote:
3. Not move Ariza and Okafor in a salary dump. I didn't like either player, but they both play solid defense. Plus they would have been more attractive this season for other teams in a salary dump.
So, you're basically opinion that we should have screwed the rebuild to stay slightly worse than mediocre?
quote:
The team would have looked like this..
Vasquez/Jack/Roberts
Martin/Rivers
Aminu/Ariza/Miller
Davis/Landry/Ayon
Okafor/Motie/Smith
Really? We don't get Davis OR Rivers if we take the Houston trade.
quote:
This offseason, we would have two late lottery picks, not much cap space (which we probably won't use anyway), but nice trade pieces. Just a bit better foundation to build around Davis.
You don't have Davis to build around.
Posted on 4/16/13 at 8:24 am to danman6336
quote:
starting C?
quote:
Jason Smith
Posted on 4/16/13 at 8:26 am to danman6336
quote:
Jack has proven beyond any doubt he is a solid starting NBA PG
Then why is he a backup? 4 GS....
quote:
Lopez has proven nothing except that he's a decent rotation guy
Lopez @ $4M >>> Jack @ $5M
Posted on 4/16/13 at 8:34 am to TigerinATL
quote:
At the time I thought Thornton for Landry was adequate value, especially considering the way he was being used, but 2 years later when Landry left for nothing the trade became a failure in my eyes because if you draft a rotation player or better you need to get more than 3 years of use out of them.
We also can't ignore that CP3 refused to get along with Thornton as our FO was doing everything to try to keep him happy.
Posted on 4/16/13 at 8:37 am to brmark70816
quote:
K. Martin, Jack and Aminu
So now we're trading CP3 twice?
Posted on 4/16/13 at 9:12 am to Jester
quote:
What? That Houston trade was for Odom, Scola, Martin, and three farts in a brown paper bag
That was for Paul. Rumors were that Houston was offering assets for Gordon in a S/T this past summer- to land that star they were looking for. Theoretically it was for Martin and draft picks (combo of Lamb, Jones, Montiejunas).
No one knows what the offer was or if they even were offering anything.
Posted on 4/16/13 at 9:30 am to corndeaux
quote:
Rumors were that Houston was offering
Exactly. Rumors. No one knows a goddamn thing.
ANYONE that is arguing that the Okafor/Ariza trade was anything but an amazing victory is fricking tard and not worth arguing with. Don't even bother.
Seriously, that is one of the great trades in Hornets history. Seriously, think about it: both of those piece of shite contracts would STILL be on the books for next year, as both are opting in.
Ariza would still be bricking 3s and living off of a past reputation as a defender, while Okafor would be barely dunking the ball and getting dominated. We would have a slightly better record, probably, as they are veterans, meaning we would have a worse pick and further stuck in mediocrity. We don't get Lopez, or Anderson.
If you're doing a rebuild...YOU frickING REBUILD. You dump contracts like crazy, including Jack, Ariza, Okafor, and you start on the process with young players. You get them experience and you take your lumps. You SAVE YOUR OWNER SOME MONEY...even if you have no intention of using the cap space now.
I can't even believe I'm having this conversation.
Posted on 4/16/13 at 9:31 am to corndeaux
quote:
That was for Paul. Rumors were that Houston was offering assets for Gordon in a S/T this past summer- to land that star they were looking for. Theoretically it was for Martin and draft picks (combo of Lamb, Jones, Montiejunas).
Thank you. I didn't realize some people didn't know what I meant. But I meant this past summer (after the draft), when Gordon was shopping for teams. Here is a link to one of the articles.. LINK /
It's all in the past now, but I wish they would have pulled the trigger on that trade. If it was offered, which it seems to have been..
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