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Message
A serious question re Miles, Saban and recruit's parents
Posted on 4/14/13 at 9:42 am
Posted on 4/14/13 at 9:42 am
Ill preface this by saying I'm sure that much of what goes into making up the general publics perception of these two coaches may be embellished, and certainly the way certain incidents are viewed depend on a person's point of view. How much truth is behind them? Who knows.
I just wonder though how much the following plays into the minds of recruits (and their parents) when having a strong family unit is involved? Some of the comments I heard on the Rutgers BB situation made me think of this.
From the outside (and a LSU fans perspective) I see the reports of Saban stepping over players, lying about being the coach at Alabama, showing a lack of loyalty, having his coaches say nonsense like "he's a great human being", watch him public ally berate players on the sideline and reports of numerous problems with his own children
On the other hand, Miles seemingly is more of a father figure to his players. He has displayed loyalty to LSU even when few would have faulted him for "going home". He seems to be a good father to his own children who apparently are successful. He seems to, at least publicly, teach his players rather than berate them.
Is the public perception of these two guys that much off? Do people just ignore it because of the perception of the technical football coaching ability is?
I just wonder though how much the following plays into the minds of recruits (and their parents) when having a strong family unit is involved? Some of the comments I heard on the Rutgers BB situation made me think of this.
From the outside (and a LSU fans perspective) I see the reports of Saban stepping over players, lying about being the coach at Alabama, showing a lack of loyalty, having his coaches say nonsense like "he's a great human being", watch him public ally berate players on the sideline and reports of numerous problems with his own children
On the other hand, Miles seemingly is more of a father figure to his players. He has displayed loyalty to LSU even when few would have faulted him for "going home". He seems to be a good father to his own children who apparently are successful. He seems to, at least publicly, teach his players rather than berate them.
Is the public perception of these two guys that much off? Do people just ignore it because of the perception of the technical football coaching ability is?
This post was edited on 4/14/13 at 9:44 am
3
Posted on 4/14/13 at 9:49 am to lsusa
I am older than maybe a lot of people on this board. The coaches I had growing up were old school. I am used to seeing coaches act like Saban. The kids are a bit softer today than they used to be. Miles isn't really a father figure but more of a player's coach. He gives a lot of leeway and chances where maybe Saban doesn't. They both have different styles and both are effective. Personally I prefer Saban's approach and his more disciplined mentality. It's the style I am used to. That's doesn't make the way Miles coaches wrong.
Posted on 4/14/13 at 10:10 am to lsusa
Great subject, and very worth replying to. I also notice the same thing. I believe the disparity is very accessible and can be very obvious, but there is a huge blinder factor that everyone in this country is indoctrinated with through media and education, and that is called a results driven society. The means always justify the ends.
In this day in age, we have been bred to believe that poor character and methodology are overlooked and even sometimes praised as long as you achieve acceptable results. All is forgiven, excuses are thrown out and the public rationalizes all if a person wins.
This starts even on the most simple level. Little league parents berating their kids for losing, teaching them early on to be results driven, instead of emphasizing bonding through teamwork, sportsmanship through humility, and celebration of performing your best, even when you finish second. They will do anything to get a win because their lives are miserable at home and this in turn magnifies the importance of winning the game, regardless of cost.
Plenty of ranters on this site are the same simpletons who I am referring to, as every school has them. These are the same kind that immediately want to get rid of miles when he has one loss, or jump back on the wagon when he is winning, but always ride sabans dong cause they overly emphasize his results and cannot acknowledge his obvious flaws, and wet rag personality
Yes, yes tldr. I know, you can't help that modern technology has dumbed down your mental capacity and shortened your attention spans
In this day in age, we have been bred to believe that poor character and methodology are overlooked and even sometimes praised as long as you achieve acceptable results. All is forgiven, excuses are thrown out and the public rationalizes all if a person wins.
This starts even on the most simple level. Little league parents berating their kids for losing, teaching them early on to be results driven, instead of emphasizing bonding through teamwork, sportsmanship through humility, and celebration of performing your best, even when you finish second. They will do anything to get a win because their lives are miserable at home and this in turn magnifies the importance of winning the game, regardless of cost.
Plenty of ranters on this site are the same simpletons who I am referring to, as every school has them. These are the same kind that immediately want to get rid of miles when he has one loss, or jump back on the wagon when he is winning, but always ride sabans dong cause they overly emphasize his results and cannot acknowledge his obvious flaws, and wet rag personality
Yes, yes tldr. I know, you can't help that modern technology has dumbed down your mental capacity and shortened your attention spans
Posted on 4/14/13 at 10:17 am to peopleschamp
Stepping over someone's body when they are in clear need of medical attention is not old school; it shows that you value your authority over a game more than than humanity and decency. There is an obvious problem with his ego, and his narcissism is detrimental, as is manifested through his relationship with his deteriorated family life.
I am not arguing against a tough old school approach. Both Chavis and brick teach that way, but their players know it comes from love whereas I have never heard that about saban who only pushes them hard for results so as to validate himself.
How do people overlook this. Standard pyschology
I am not arguing against a tough old school approach. Both Chavis and brick teach that way, but their players know it comes from love whereas I have never heard that about saban who only pushes them hard for results so as to validate himself.
How do people overlook this. Standard pyschology
Posted on 4/14/13 at 10:26 am to BillyBobBlitzkrieg
I think it all comes down to who would you rather have your kid play for. In my case Les Miles. 
Posted on 4/14/13 at 11:01 am to LSUCanFAN
Tricky question....After seeing both coaches at LSU I am convinced we have the right one now. I think the ultimate goal is to have a coach produce mature, respectable adults that will thrive in society after earning their degrees. Hopefully a large percentage will have an opportunity to play at the next level but will be successful in what ever they endeavor.
Hopefully we win some more Championships but as long as we are in the discussion, I'm happy. Les seems to be very good at developing the above mentioned qualities and he has been very successful on the field as well.
There is no doubt in my mind that most parents would chose Les over Saban.
Hopefully we win some more Championships but as long as we are in the discussion, I'm happy. Les seems to be very good at developing the above mentioned qualities and he has been very successful on the field as well.
There is no doubt in my mind that most parents would chose Les over Saban.
Posted on 4/14/13 at 11:17 am to oneg8rh8r
quote:
There is no doubt in my mind that most parents would chose Les over Saban
I agree, but how in the heck does Saban continue to recruit so well year in and year out? I just don't get it...
Posted on 4/14/13 at 11:19 am to MontanaTiger
quote:
I agree, but how in the heck does Saban continue to recruit so well year in and year out? I just don't get it...
Honeslty, you do what's right for the kid. Not yourself as a parent. That's my mentality. If my kid is a major screwup, imo, he needs more military style coaching. If he's a good kid, I'll let him choose what he likes best.
Basically, it depends on the kid. Screwups need to be watched and that's what I'd look for and probably prefer Saban.
I'll also say, if my kid is a good kid, I will be more concerned with the other kids in their recruiting class and on the team than a coach like Saban or Miles. They'll have more influence than those two.
This post was edited on 4/14/13 at 11:21 am
Posted on 4/14/13 at 11:22 am to lsusa
quote:
lying about being the coach at Alabama
I think you're getting him on a technicality here.
It's similar to the situation with George W. and WMD in Iraq. Did he lie or was that the truth for him at the time based on the intelligence he received?
Saban says "that was the truth at that time."
And, while on the topic of lying, was this a lie?
Posted on 4/14/13 at 11:24 am to LSUCanFAN
I would rather win or lose with Miles than win with Saban.
This post was edited on 4/14/13 at 11:32 am
Posted on 4/14/13 at 11:37 am to oneg8rh8r
quote:
After seeing both coaches at LSU I am convinced we have the right one now.
I'm sorry to say this here, but I disagree.
Posted on 4/14/13 at 11:46 am to inadaze
quote:
I'm sorry to say this here, but I disagree.
That's your opinion.
That's what's great about this board. Hopefully no one attacks you for that. This post was edited on 4/14/13 at 11:47 am
Posted on 4/14/13 at 11:51 am to inadaze
Ditto! This argument is similar too Bobby Knight syndrome. Results speak for themselves. And you never see Saban with clock management and brain farts in crucial situations. Saban restructured LSU athletics and made the bed that Les is sleeping in. Les is very likable and a great recruiter. Both know how to win. But Saban is more efficient.
Posted on 4/14/13 at 2:18 pm to inadaze
quote:
I'm sorry to say this here, but I disagree.
After seeing your previous post I highly doubt you are sorry to say that. And what about Dre Kirkpatrick's obvious drug problem and the Bama player that beat his girlfriend. You are willing to give Saban every benefit of the doubt yet wish to hold Miles feet to the fire over any ordeal.
Posted on 4/14/13 at 2:21 pm to rickyh
quote:
never see Saban with clock management and brain farts in crucial situations.
Really? I have seen Saban lose several games he had no business losing I guess maybe you missed some games. And for at least the last couple seasons has had an easier road to navigate yet still manage to lose some games.
Posted on 4/14/13 at 4:56 pm to BillyBobfan24_7
People have selective memory. They obviously dont remember ulm, uab, and utah losses. Hell, at least Miles had the decency to come back and win against Troy
Posted on 4/14/13 at 6:15 pm to BillyBobBlitzkrieg
Reality is way way off from the view that the OP posted. Miles is a little bit nicer and has morals where as Satan is an arse, doesn't give a rats arse about his player OR HIS COACHES or his word. Satan lies at the drop of a hat and it is all about him.
The ex-LSU players feel like they could ask Miles for a favor even well after they have left the program.
You can argue who is a better football coach but there is no comparison on who is a better person. I don't just want a good man for a coach it is all I will accept as MY coach.
The ex-LSU players feel like they could ask Miles for a favor even well after they have left the program.
You can argue who is a better football coach but there is no comparison on who is a better person. I don't just want a good man for a coach it is all I will accept as MY coach.
Posted on 4/14/13 at 7:05 pm to peopleschamp
quote:
I am older than maybe a lot of people on this board.
Im 41 for the record
quote:
The coaches I had growing up were old school. I am used to seeing coaches act like Saban. The kids are a bit softer today than they used to be. Miles isn't really a father figure but more of a player's coach. He gives a lot of leeway and chances where maybe Saban doesn't. They both have different styles and both are effective. Personally I prefer Saban's approach and his more disciplined mentality. It's the style I am used to. That's doesn't make the way Miles coaches wrong.
I dont think this answered the original post. Forget about Miles and or LSU or any other coach or school. I too wonder how parents dont see sabans lack of character as a detriment.
When deciding what school to go to, considering that LSU or bama could give you the same results to your personal goals......(besides early playing time at a position) I cant see why sabans lack of character wouldnt be an issue
Posted on 4/14/13 at 9:58 pm to MoreOrLes
I would guess Saban recruits through the best, most organized grapevine in NCAA history.
Never mind how many rules get broken.
Never mind how many rules get broken.
Posted on 4/14/13 at 11:53 pm to dreaux
Large part of Sabans success goes to easy schedules and bull shite calls.
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