Supreme Court sides with timber industry, dealing blow to environmentalist | Page 2 | TigerDroppings.com

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Roaad
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re: Supreme Court sides with timber industry, dealing blow to environmentalist


quote:

It's not spinning.

quote:

This happens all the time with government agencies
7-1 and 9-0 reversals happen all the time. . .even when the offending agency completely folds like a lawn chair?

quote:

this is hardly a bitch slap
a 7-1 reversal?
That is a bitch slap followed by a stone-cold-stunner.

quote:

you people
I see what you are doing here, and it is sad.

quote:

you people scream like Braveheart when it deals with environmentalists.
Lulz.

U mad.






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SlowFlowPro
Stanford Fan
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300948 posts

re: Supreme Court sides with timber industry, dealing blow to environmentalist


quote:

but you people scream like Braveheart when it deals with environmentalists.

that's b/c no only is the EPA, by far, the most aggressive federal agency, it has the most nebulous and uncertain "backbone" legislation in the CWA. what they were doing to the sacketts, procedurally, was pure fricking evil.

now you look at this random expansion of their CWA regs and you see just how encompassing their power can possibly be

that's why people hate the EPA, and are happy when their power grabs are slapped down by the USSC. the problem, even noted in Scalia's dissent, is how courts have warped our bureaucracy






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FalseProphet
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Member since Dec 2011
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re: Supreme Court sides with timber industry, dealing blow to environmentalist


No I'm not. I could not are less about the ruling. I just hate when people misread what the court does.

If Scalia's dissent was the majority opinion and removed all deference from agencies, that would be a bitch slap.

A reversal, even a unanimous one, from the 9th Circuit is not a bitch slap.

IT HAPPENS ALL THE TIME.






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BlackHelicopterPilot
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Member since Feb 2004
33767 posts

re: Supreme Court sides with timber industry, dealing blow to environmentalist


quote:

now you look at this random expansion of their CWA regs and you see just how encompassing their power can possibly be

that's why people hate the EPA, and are happy when their power grabs are slapped down by the USSC.


THIS

I am amazed that people seem to only read the "Title" of an act / regulation / bill and take a stand FOR it.

"Its the CLEAN WATER ACT!! Are you against CLEAN WATER?"


drives....me....crazy






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BlackHelicopterPilot
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re: Supreme Court sides with timber industry, dealing blow to environmentalist


quote:

If Scalia's dissent was the majority opinion and removed all deference from agencies, that would be a bitch slap.

A reversal, even a unanimous one, from the 9th Circuit is not a bitch slap.







Are you the official arbiter of what "bitch slap" means?






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SlowFlowPro
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re: Supreme Court sides with timber industry, dealing blow to environmentalist


quote:

Are you the official arbiter of what "bitch slap" means?

i remember the sackett threads on here during the oral arguments (and if you want to watch some amazing oral arguments, download those), and there was a real debate who would win. 9-0

if the EPA didn't want this power, why the frick did they argue in oral arguments or not withdraw their briefs? how much money did they waste on this stupidity? of course the EPA wanted this power, even if it gave lip service to its own interpretation (why did it have this interpretation in the first fricking place?)

to get these justices to unanimously agree (scalia's protest being giggled about) is very strange, and it's very strange b/c it deals with a sacred cow of progressives (the EPA).






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Roaad
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re: Supreme Court sides with timber industry, dealing blow to environmentalist


It can't be a bitch slap if it is directed against a liberal group.

True story.



7-1 and 9-0 reversals are just mild reminders.







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FalseProphet
LSU Fan
Funroe
Member since Dec 2011
6738 posts

re: Supreme Court sides with timber industry, dealing blow to environmentalist


quote:

It can't be a bitch slap if it is directed against a liberal group.


Of course it can. Are you trying to imply that I'm a liberal without knowing me? I just don't see that this is a bitch slap dealing with agency deference and a rule that's no longer in existence.

And reversals are not "reminders." What the hell are they a reminder of?







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SlowFlowPro
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re: Supreme Court sides with timber industry, dealing blow to environmentalist


quote:

I just don't see that this is a bitch slap dealing with agency deference and a rule that's no longer in existence.

why did they continue to waste taxpayer money (and indirectly, the logging industry's money) by continuing to fight the case?






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FalseProphet
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re: Supreme Court sides with timber industry, dealing blow to environmentalist


You do know it was not the EPA fighting against the loggers right? They were actually fighting the environmentalists over whether or not the environmentalists could force them to take action against a logging company that the environmentalists though was breaking an EPA rule.

The EPA didn't think the logging company was breaking the rule as the EPA interpreted it, and the EPA clarified the rule right before argument.

This has nothing to do with environmentalists versus big industry, and it certainly isn't a bitch slap when the Supreme Court says you can't force the EPA to read its rules a certain way. This was a simple case about agency deference, and there really wasn't much to it.

So why did they fight it? The EPA doesn't't like being told what to do.






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CollegeFBRules
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Member since Oct 2008
19815 posts

re: Supreme Court sides with timber industry, dealing blow to environmentalist


quote:

This happens all the time with government agencies, but you people scream like Braveheart when it deals with environmentalists.


Good point, environmentalists are normally quite mild when it comes to their advocacy. When you get a chance, I'll give you some good stories about how much the EPA tried to screw companies over with their environmental sensibilities.






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SlowFlowPro
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re: Supreme Court sides with timber industry, dealing blow to environmentalist


that's weird. if so, how do they have standing then?





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FalseProphet
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re: Supreme Court sides with timber industry, dealing blow to environmentalist


The petitioner alleged that the logging company was causing runoff into its water in violation of an EPA rule and the EPA refused to enforce it so they filed suit under the citizens suit provision of the Clean Water Act to enforce the rule.

By the way, for all of the bitch slap folks in here, Scalia's dissent would have removed agency deference and allowed the suit against the logging company (in other words, he would have sided with those pesky environmentalists).



This post was edited on 3/21 at 8:39 am


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CptRusty
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re: Supreme Court sides with timber industry, dealing blow to environmentalist


quote:

I'm an avid court watcher


please tell me you are a lawyer.






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Taxing Authority
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Houston
Member since Feb 2010
23359 posts

re: Supreme Court sides with timber industry, dealing blow to environmentalist


quote:

Fantastic. We hate the EPA because saving the environment is so liberal. Those a$$holes want my grand kids to have drinkable water and clean air to breathe...frick them.
Storm runoff has nothing to do with drinkable water unless you're drinking from roadside ditches.

This is yet another example of EPA regulation that has NOTHING to do with actually keeping the environment clean, but EVERYTHING to do with harassing legitimate, safe, and responsible use of resources.

If you pared down the EPA to the regulations that actually protect the environment it would receive almost universal support.

The idea that if one opposes the overreach by the EPA, he therefore wants pollution is nothing more than a dishonest argument based upon a false premise.



This post was edited on 3/21 at 10:09 am


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Taxing Authority
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Houston
Member since Feb 2010
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re: Supreme Court sides with timber industry, dealing blow to environmentalist


quote:

A reversal, even a unanimous one, from the 9th Circuit is not a bitch slap
than pleas tell us what would constitute a butch slap?






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FalseProphet
LSU Fan
Funroe
Member since Dec 2011
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re: Supreme Court sides with timber industry, dealing blow to environmentalist


quote:

than pleas tell us what would constitute a butch slap?


Read on in the thread. This was not even a major ruling. The 9th circuit is routinely reversed just because they are insanely dumb.

Having to tell your children they are dumb when they are (and all parents agree) doesn't mean you are bitch slapping them.

Plus, three judges might have sided with them.






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alajones
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Hell
Member since Oct 2005
22864 posts

re: Supreme Court sides with timber industry, dealing blow to environmentalist


quote:

Who "won" the lower court ruling on that one? Because, if the EPA did, I can't imagine a more legal undressing then Supreme Court going 9-0 against your lower court's ruling. I think I'd might retire from the legal profession altogether
This is why Sotameyer should have never been nominated. She was over turned all the time.






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Taxing Authority
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Houston
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re: Supreme Court sides with timber industry, dealing blow to environmentalist








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FalseProphet
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Funroe
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re: Supreme Court sides with timber industry, dealing blow to environmentalist


I guess people need to understand the posture of this case. The EPA was not a party but an intervenor seeking to protect its view of how its regulations are interpreted.

In this case, an environmental group thought that a logging company was violating EPA regulations under the Clean Water Act. The EPA disagreed and refused to go after the logging company. When the EPA refuses to take action, the Clean Water Act allows a private citizen (or group) to bring an action against the violator. Here, the environmental group did just that.

At the trial court, the EPA intervened and argued that the rule didn't apply (siding with the logging company). The trial court disagreed and found that the rule did apply. The 9th circuit affirmed.

The Supreme Court reversed and held that an agencies interpretations of its own regulations are entitled to pretty strong deference. Even though the EPA rule facially would have made the conduct of the logging company violative of the regulation, if the EPA wanted to read that rule in some other way they could.

Right before the argument, the EPA changed its rule so that it was clear that the conduct that occurred in this case was not subject to the rule.

Scalia would have affirmed. He doesn't believe an agency is entitled to deference on its own regulations and would apply what the regulation says. The regulation says that the timber company should have been liable, so he would hold them liable. Chief Justice Roberts and Justice Alito, in a concurring opinion, said they might agree with Scalia but that this was not a good case to change 50 years of law where the parties only asked them to do so in a footnote.

I really see no bitch slap here.



This post was edited on 3/21 at 10:51 am


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