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re: .
Posted on 3/19/13 at 3:14 pm to Freauxzen
Posted on 3/19/13 at 3:14 pm to Freauxzen
quote:
It's greatness overall, as a Top 100, or even worse, Top 50, is out of the question.
Thank God you're here to set us straight! Yeah, so the idea that SoTL is pretty much on every top 100 list there is by a reputable source means nothing.
quote:
As said above, it isn't Citizen Kane. It also isn't Metropolis, Seven Samurai, The Godfather, or any number of truly great films.
Great films. There's a level of appreciation for a movie like Metropolis and what it did for film going forward. It's so "great" because of that. Let's remember a huge part of watching a movie is entertainment. It's not all just art or opening doors.
quote:
Yes there are 100, probably more than 200 truly better films, at least. (Let's see where it fits on our Top 200 thread).
You and your buddy Blue Velvet are probably the type of guys to put Blue Velvet in your Top 100. Maybe even add Naked Lunch in there to show how different and artsy you guys are.
quote:
Secondly, its "greatness" through quality of "parts" is debatable. I'd probably be on the side of "pretty good," but I'm admittedly overly harsh on film. I feel a film really has to connect, has to be perfect in multiple ways to be a great film. SotL falls just short for me.
What exactly are you overly harsh about? I mean, other than wanting to be different than the masses I guess. Where did the film fail?
quote:
I'd argue Brian Cox is just as good, if not better, than Hopkins.
You wanna know how easy it is to dismiss your "critiques"?
quote:
I think it better that Lecter is more normal rather than less.
Yes! Because we all know someone who murders and eats people is perfectly normal. You're trying too hard.
2
Posted on 3/19/13 at 3:36 pm to DelU249
quote:
Or is it only memorable for Hopkins' performance as Hannibal Lecter?
I'd say Buffalo Bill plus all his horrors and Jodie Foster's performance are pretty damn memorable. Yeah, I'd say it is a great film. It got close to my Top 40, but didn't quite make it.
Posted on 3/19/13 at 3:43 pm to iwyLSUiwy
quote:
No not solely on that at all. Jame Gumb is always overlooked bc of Hannibal but he is right on par with him or maybe better.
Yeah, I think Buffalo Bill always gets the shaft when bringing up great villains. Why does Hannibal get all the glory? I'd much rather be captured, killed, and cannibalized by him than Buffalo Bill. At least Hannibal is quick and to the point, but Buffalo Bill makes you suffer for months on end in his creepy well of a basement, and then uses your body as a jock strap instead of sustenance. Hannibal is really just creepy to me, while Buffalo Bill is absolutely horrifying. Not to mention Hannibal is not the antagonist of SotL, and thus not the villain; Buffalo Bill deserves that glory.
Posted on 3/19/13 at 4:07 pm to DelU249
I like 'Hannibal' equally....
Posted on 3/19/13 at 4:48 pm to Sho Nuff
quote:
Thank God you're here to set us straight! Yeah, so the idea that SoTL is pretty much on every top 100 list there is by a reputable source means nothing.
Link? Sure it makes a few and it makes AFI, and maybe some critics, which you oh so label me as one, and it always depends on the "point" of the list.
If the question was "greatest suspense movies," or "greatest movies post 1970," then yeah there's an argument. "Great film," is ambiguous, and if it means "One of the Greatest Films of All-Time," then yeah, there's some issue.
quote:
Great films. There's a level of appreciation for a movie like Metropolis and what it did for film going forward. It's so "great" because of that. Let's remember a huge part of watching a movie is entertainment. It's not all just art or opening doors.
I'll agree here. Of course there's more to film than art. And there's more to film than entertainment too.
quote:
You and your buddy Blue Velvet are probably the type of guys to put Blue Velvet in your Top 100. Maybe even add Naked Lunch in there to show how different and artsy you guys are.
You can check my posted Top 40, neither film is in there. BV would maybe make my Top 100. Maybe not. Naked Lunch is an awesome movie, far from great, but awesome. And no it's not in my top 100 either. But way to generalize people at all and make assumptions. I notice you attack the people, not the opinions, with, you know, real arguments.
quote:
What exactly are you overly harsh about?
Maybe you should read my other posts, about other films. I admittedly look for top quality, try to have an objective, balanced and clear opinion as possible and make sure not to get over-excited about things just because I felt some emotion while watching it. I'm harsh in that I really believe the qualities of a "great film," should be so tight in that having one requires many things to go right and be perfect. That inside of and outside of pop culture, the film is relevant. And that, same rule applied to innovation and historical importance. Etc. And I try to be consistent.
I'm harsh relatively speaking because I don't throw the "great" label around willy nilly. Which, to me, devalues the idea of a "great film."
quote:
I mean, other than wanting to be different than the masses I guess. Where did the film fail?
Just because something isn't "great," doesn't mean it failed. Your main problem is that simply because I didn't lavish the movie with praise that the movie is crap. Far from the truth.
So does something either "achieve greatness," or "fail," is that really your point? That's a really big gap and maybe you should rethink your approach.
In short, you are over reacting, you can tone it down. The movie is very good.
quote:
You wanna know how easy it is to dismiss your "critiques"?
Did I say you have to accept them? Acting, more so than film, is almost completely subjective. To each his own. I already expressed my opinion on Cox above. Hannibal, to me, was too close to a cartoon to be scary. It just didn't work for me. Great performance though. Wonderful even.
quote:
Yes! Because we all know someone who murders and eats people is perfectly normal. You're trying too hard.
Haha, what? It would be creepier to me if my normal next door neighbor was secretly a cannibal, Someone who said Hi in a normal way, waved, and smiled, rather than the slick haired, creepy guy who stares at me and licks his lips constantly.
I don't think I'm alone in that belief. Sorry. And no I'm not trying too hard, Hopkins' performance was great. I commend him and Demme for giving us that version. That version just wasn't effective for me as an agent of horror.
I know you really, really want to try to paint me as some crazy, super pretentious person, nice try, but not true.
Posted on 3/19/13 at 5:15 pm to Freauxzen
First you say
and then you say
Really? You need more links? There's more if you need.
If calling something true is an "attack" then I guess that's what I did. You haven't made a real argument. You've just made some funny opinions to justify how you don't think a film is in the Top 100 or even 200. They've been laughed at by more than just me.
Sounds great, way to be generic. You still didn't say where SoTL missed those marks for you.
Well then, only your #1 film should be "great" and everything else should be "good" then. Even if you said SoTL was your #150 film, you're saying that's not a "great" film considering how many there actually are all-time?
I don't remember saying that. Wanna show me?
I'm "overreacting" by thinking that SoTL is a top 100 film? If I said "SoTL is the #1 movie of all-time and dwi" then you could say such foolishness. If I was alone in my thinking, then you could say I was overreacting. You're simply overvaluing your opinion.
Me thinks you didn't watch the film. Hopkins was very normal in many ways. Your perception made him "cartoonish". Keep in mind, he was locked up/caught. So he was a little more outlandish cause he could be. Remember how he is on the outside and in other versions. He is very calm, cool, and collected. Normal. Hopkins absolutely killed that role and there is nobody that did better with the character of Lecter. Cox wasn't scary as you imply. Not more so than Hopkins.
About Hopkins over Cox? Or about some perception you're trying to make reality that Hopkins was "cartoonish" and people would rather the more normal looking cannibal?
Oh don't worry, you're doing a great job of that yourself.
quote:
Link?
and then you say
quote:
Sure it makes a few and it makes AFI, and maybe some critics
Really? You need more links? There's more if you need.
quote:
BV would maybe make my Top 100. Maybe not. Naked Lunch is an awesome movie, far from great, but awesome. And no it's not in my top 100 either. But way to generalize people at all and make assumptions. I notice you attack the people, not the opinions, with, you know, real arguments.
If calling something true is an "attack" then I guess that's what I did. You haven't made a real argument. You've just made some funny opinions to justify how you don't think a film is in the Top 100 or even 200. They've been laughed at by more than just me.
quote:
I admittedly look for top quality, try to have an objective, balanced and clear opinion as possible and make sure not to get over-excited about things just because I felt some emotion while watching it. I'm harsh in that I really believe the qualities of a "great film," should be so tight in that having one requires many things to go right and be perfect. That inside of and outside of pop culture, the film is relevant. And that, same rule applied to innovation and historical importance. Etc. And I try to be consistent.
Sounds great, way to be generic. You still didn't say where SoTL missed those marks for you.
quote:
I'm harsh relatively speaking because I don't throw the "great" label around willy nilly. Which, to me, devalues the idea of a "great film."
Well then, only your #1 film should be "great" and everything else should be "good" then. Even if you said SoTL was your #150 film, you're saying that's not a "great" film considering how many there actually are all-time?
quote:
Your main problem is that simply because I didn't lavish the movie with praise that the movie is crap. Far from the truth.
I don't remember saying that. Wanna show me?
quote:
In short, you are over reacting, you can tone it down. The movie is very good.
I'm "overreacting" by thinking that SoTL is a top 100 film? If I said "SoTL is the #1 movie of all-time and dwi" then you could say such foolishness. If I was alone in my thinking, then you could say I was overreacting. You're simply overvaluing your opinion. quote:
Someone who said Hi in a normal way, waved, and smiled, rather than the slick haired, creepy guy who stares at me and licks his lips constantly.
Me thinks you didn't watch the film. Hopkins was very normal in many ways. Your perception made him "cartoonish". Keep in mind, he was locked up/caught. So he was a little more outlandish cause he could be. Remember how he is on the outside and in other versions. He is very calm, cool, and collected. Normal. Hopkins absolutely killed that role and there is nobody that did better with the character of Lecter. Cox wasn't scary as you imply. Not more so than Hopkins.
quote:
I don't think I'm alone in that belief.
About Hopkins over Cox? Or about some perception you're trying to make reality that Hopkins was "cartoonish" and people would rather the more normal looking cannibal?
quote:
I commend him and Demme for giving us that version. That version just wasn't effective for me as an agent of horror.
quote:
I know you really, really want to try to paint me as some crazy, super pretentious person, nice try, but not true.
Oh don't worry, you're doing a great job of that yourself.
Posted on 3/19/13 at 5:56 pm to Sho Nuff
quote:What a little bitch!
You and your buddy Blue Velvet are probably the type of guys to put Blue Velvet in your Top 100. Maybe even add Naked Lunch in there to show how different and artsy you guys are.
Blue Velvet is a great film and Naked Lunch ain't half bad. If you can't appreciate or grasp good movies then it speaks more about you than the works of Lynch and Cronenberg. Posted on 3/19/13 at 5:57 pm to Sho Nuff
quote:
Really? You need more links? There's more if you need.
I don't see any links?
quote:
If calling something true is an "attack" then I guess that's what I did. You haven't made a real argument. You've just made some funny opinions to justify how you don't think a film is in the Top 100 or even 200. They've been laughed at by more than just me.
Calling what true? None of it is? What the heck are you talking about?
No funny opinions, and I don't see you breaking down the film either. I have glossed over why and why not, so yeah, go back and read.
quote:
Sounds great, way to be generic. You still didn't say where SoTL missed those marks for you.
And you haven't offered a single opinion about why it's the most amazing film ever made? See how that works.
Oh yeah, the list...a lot of people like the Jonas Brothers too.
quote:
I'm "overreacting" by thinking that SoTL is a top 100 film? If I said "SoTL is the #1 movie of all-time and dwi" then you could say such foolishness. If I was alone in my thinking, then you could say I was overreacting. You're simply overvaluing your opinion.
And you're acting like I said it was the worst movie ever made. So yeah you kind of are. You are also personally attacking as well, even being passive aggressive about it, also showing you are taking it a little too seriously.
Someone asked a question and I answered, there's no overvaluing going on. Should we all talk lock step with the majority? Is that the best way to determine things?
Relax bro. It's a discussion about a film we disagree on, everything is going to be ok.
quote:
I don't remember saying that. Wanna show me?
Yeah, go read your own posts, plenty of proof there.
quote:
Oh don't worry, you're doing a great job of that yourself.
Look we're getting into a banal argument and ruining a perfectly good thread with a perfectly good question.
It's a very good movie. It has great performances all around, and decent, if not very good direction. A tight script, with great editing and pacing, and deserves much of the praise it gets.
I'm going to assume that we differ on the idea of "great film." That's really all that's at stake here. No need to personally attack, be passive aggressive, get off topic, or any of that crap that you want to pull.
Posted on 3/19/13 at 5:58 pm to Blue Velvet
quote:
What a little bitch! Blue Velvet is a great film and Naked Lunch ain't half bad. If you can't appreciate or grasp good movies then it speaks more about you than the works of Lynch and Cronenberg.
I feel like I ran over his puppy, he's so angry.
Posted on 3/19/13 at 5:59 pm to Sho Nuff
quote:Just a heads up; what is popular =/= best. Groupthink is a terrible method for arguing your point... especially on a board where half the population watches 1600 Penn and The Big Bang Theory.
They've been laughed at by more than just me.
Posted on 3/19/13 at 6:07 pm to Blue Velvet
quote:
What a little bitch! Blue Velvet is a great film and Naked Lunch ain't half bad. If you can't appreciate or grasp good movies then it speaks more about you than the works of Lynch and Cronenberg.
I never said they were bad. I'm actually a fan of both movies and both directors. I think what you missed is me saying your little buddy would maybe put them in front of SoTL to show how artsy he was. Bish.
Posted on 3/19/13 at 6:10 pm to Freauxzen
quote:
It's a very good movie. It has great performances all around, and decent, if not very good direction. A tight script, with great editing and pacing, and deserves much of the praise it gets.
quote:
It's a discussion about a film we disagree on, everything is going to be ok.
Best thing you've said.
Posted on 3/19/13 at 6:10 pm to Sho Nuff
quote:B.V. is tenfold better than SoTL so that makes perfect sense.
I think what you missed is me saying your little buddy would maybe put them in front of SoTL
Posted on 3/19/13 at 6:12 pm to Sho Nuff
quote:
I never said they were bad. I'm actually a fan of both movies and both directors. I think what you missed is me saying your little buddy would maybe put them in front of SoTL to show how artsy he was.
Did you even care to read my response? And no, I'm not the pretentious artsy guy around here. I generally dislike art for art's sake and think it's a load of crap in general. Superior Pariah is gone (Where are you bud?!?)
You need some context for accusations man, someone doesn't think SotL is the greatest movie of all-time so they are a hipster, pretentious artsy fake? Yeah, incredible argument.
And yeah BV is ahead of SotL for me, no question.
This post was edited on 3/19/13 at 6:13 pm
Posted on 3/19/13 at 6:13 pm to Freauxzen
quote:
I feel like I ran over his puppy, he's so angry.
Haha, oh I forgot how the cool little kids work here. Saying something like "he's angry" ends all
Trust me, not angry. I've been laughing the whole way.
Posted on 3/19/13 at 6:14 pm to Freauxzen
quote:Thank you. It's daily struggle on this board.
You need some context for accusations man, someone doesn't think SotL is the greatest movie of all-time so they are a hipster, pretentious artsy fake? Yeah, incredible argument.
Posted on 3/19/13 at 6:14 pm to Sho Nuff
quote:
Best thing you've said.
Except the entirety of your little tirade is based on the fact that we didn't agree, so it must not be something you believe.
This post was edited on 3/19/13 at 6:16 pm
Posted on 3/19/13 at 6:15 pm to Blue Velvet
quote:
Just a heads up; what is popular =/= best. Groupthink is a terrible method for arguing your point...especially on a board where half the population watches 1600 Penn and The Big Bang Theory.
Oh I agree about much what you say here. But I'm not trying to make it to be the best of all-time or anything like that. At the same time, when people try too hard to be different, it's the same lame thing.
Posted on 3/19/13 at 6:16 pm to Blue Velvet
quote:
B.V. is tenfold better than SoTL so that makes perfect sense.
And here I actually agree with much of what you say on the poli board. But wow, do you have terrible taste in film.
Posted on 3/19/13 at 6:17 pm to Sho Nuff
quote:i.e. "Don't agree with me? You must be an artsy fig just trying to be cool."
At the same time, when people try too hard to be different, it's the same lame thing.
Never mind the merits of their beef with SoTL.
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