re: Panther's Financials Leaked, $112mil In Profits 2010-2012

Still do not see where he is claiming he is losing money


Negative cash flow =\= a loss

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He has an asset worth $1B, returning 6.1% interest. I'm not crying for the guy, but it certainly is on par with what he could get if he invested $1B elsewhere.

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You're looking at the worth of the franchise right now. What's the capital appreciation during that time period. You can't just use profits in ROI calculation. Otherwise, you'd only count dividends when figuring out if you got a good ROI on a stock.

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Reminds me of how the marlins duped Miami Dade into voting for public funding for the new stadium claiming the team was losing money. Then their pre vote financials were leaked showing the team was making over $30 mil + per year in profits

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And after the slash and burn tactics last year, people are estimating they make $60-$80 million this year, mostly off the back of luxury taxes (revenue sharing) paid by the yankees, angels, dodgers, etc.

frick Lorio.

Jeffrey Loria?

Fo sure.

Although I will still go to several games this year.

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Thought you wanted a piece of me for a second

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Hell no

I think he put up 300 plus in 93 or so. That's on the forbes link, so correct me if I'm wrong. I'm too lazy to do the math, but compund the interest each year at 6 percent and a billion 20 years later doesn't seem too far off.

I hate their boring/terrible stadium

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The statement is for the years ending March 31, 2011, and March 31, 2012. Over the first period, as Richardson argued that the NFL's business model was hopelessly broken and steered the owners toward a showdown to extract more money from the players, the Panthers recorded an operating profit of $78.7 million. The team had gone 2-14 on the field, but Richardson and his partners were able to pay themselves $12 million.

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I honestly don't see the problem here. Why is this news?

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Thanks. so off the top pf my head, again correct me if I'm wrong at 7 percent compunded for 20 years it should be 824MM. At 10 percent it would be almost 1.6B. So around an 8 percent return, which is good. And if he took profits out each year of 6 percent (don't know if he did). That's a fantastic rate. If he didn't it is about what most shoot for. So if he took profits I concede the point.

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the ownership are profiting two ways though. They are apparently generating significant revenue every year and they have a good appreciation of the value of the franchise

If you just counted the gain between 2013 and 1993 in franchise value you'd already have something between 8 and 9% annual return. But that ignores the extra hundreds of millions they are also making in take home money (e.g. 112 million between 2010 and 2012 alone)

Y'all actually look at these or no? They had a negative gross operating margin this year and only a gross margin of $30 million last year (which is indeed due to player contracts) and pretty much zero revenue growth (which I guess will be solved by the tv agreement stated). To call the income from the NFL "massive" at $45MM and $47MM would be an understatement and is legitimately propping up the earnings of this franchise (see: Income from Investments in NFL Ventures, L.P. line item). As an aside if you were ever curious as to how big the "NFL" itself is financially, scroll into the notes and look at the "Investments in NFL Ventures LP" note.

Get off the I/S and look at the CF/S, there's no add-back for that I/S line item out of net income so that's a pure cash flow since its an equity method investment (also buried in "Other Assets" on the B/S which is where the CF line item change comes from for the accountant/finance types out there). Crudely back out of operating cash flows (39MM and 26MM) the 45MM and 47MM NFL pmts in 11 and 12, respectively, and you have negative cash flows both years. I caveat that with the fact that there's a lot of operating asset/liability movement that is relatively unexplanatory (why did they increase prepaid expenses ~$20mm, I have no idea) that is affecting that number as well. I'm not going to try and estimate what actual unlevered fcf might be because I don't know what components of that are maintenance capex/expansion capex etc and what the nature of those operating assets/liabs are.

Also, yeah their cash balance went up ~30MM from 11 to 12. They also reclassified ~$27 MM from "Cash reserves held by the NFL" from a fixed asset to cash (I have no idea why and the notes do not mention it), so pretty much a wash (not that anyone aside from DS would ever consider that a sign of profitability given the number of things that can impact a cash balance, but I digress).

I'm not saying they're losing money hand over fist, or that the team itself is in terrible fiscal shape (they paid off a shite ton of debt last year though, and I wouldn't call 3x levering "healthy" either, its closer to unhealthy than healthy for a capital intensive business), or that the owners aren't doing a lot of jawboning, but they're also not killing it either.

Every time these come out I say this. The value of owning an NFL team (or most sports franchises for that matter) is hoping that the next fool will come along and pay you more than what you paid for the team, its been that way for 20 years. On a standalone business perspective owning an NFL team continues to be a mediocre investment at best and one that requires a substantial economic cushion in order to operate (see: Shinn, George).