Zach Lowe on the Hornets rest of the year | Page 2 | TigerDroppings.com

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VOR
New Orleans Pelicans Fan
New Orleans
Member since Apr 2009
41964 posts

re: Zach Lowe on the Hornets rest of the year


I think . . . maybe . . . we're getting too hung up on positions rather than match ups and rotations. I truly believe that Ryno is going nowhere UNLESS it's a deal that simply can't be passed up. I reject the notion that he and Davis have to log substantial minutes together anyway. Ryno will continue to be a very valuable guy off the bench.





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corndeaux
New Orleans Pelicans Fan
Member since Sep 2009
5528 posts

re: Zach Lowe on the Hornets rest of the year


quote:

. I reject the notion that he and Davis have to log substantial minutes together anyway


Yep. Unless they find a big better than either one- which is no small task- coaches can stagger their time. They do need to be able to play together some, particularly in crunch time, but that doesnt mean 25 mpg.

Like Lowe says, the key will be how much the team thinks that pairing will work. If they dont believe in it, Ryno needs to be dealt this summer.






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drake20
New Orleans Saints Fan
Baton Rouge
Member since Oct 2005
10865 posts

re: Zach Lowe on the Hornets rest of the year


quote:

He can only play one position, a position where we just drafted a guy #1 overall to become our franchise player. That is redundancy. Maybe redundancy was a poor word choice, but I haven't seen anything that makes me think they can play big minutes together.



I got you....There is a logjam at the position. That's why Davis is the future plan at C, I hope.

I think this was Dell's/Monty's/the organization's plan as well when they signed Anderson after drafting Davis.






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VOR
New Orleans Pelicans Fan
New Orleans
Member since Apr 2009
41964 posts

re: Zach Lowe on the Hornets rest of the year


quote:

They do need to be able to play together some, particularly in crunch time, but that doesnt mean 25 mpg.


Oh, I agree with this. I just think we're nowhere near the point where we have to choose between the two and let Anderson go.






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drake20
New Orleans Saints Fan
Baton Rouge
Member since Oct 2005
10865 posts

re: Zach Lowe on the Hornets rest of the year


quote:

I'm just playing devil's advocate here, but could Davis be the one they should float for trades? He would have much more value than Anderson and packaged with Gordon, oculd bring back a huge superstar (Love?).



Gordon and Davis for Love?


lawd


...Davis is untradeable.






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VOR
New Orleans Pelicans Fan
New Orleans
Member since Apr 2009
41964 posts

re: Zach Lowe on the Hornets rest of the year


No way in hell is Davis being traded. Certainly not during his rookie contract.





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eyeran
New Orleans Pelicans Fan
New Orleans
Member since Dec 2007
17256 posts

re: Zach Lowe on the Hornets rest of the year


Body wise the Garnett comparison is a good one.

Garnett wasn't a full time center until he was 17 years into his career...

Davis and Anderson are terrible together, its a fact. But i agree with VOR, its way too premature to be talking about trades. We're fine staggering those guys' minutes.

We're a 21 win team. We just need good players. If they happen to play the same position, its not the worst thing in the world.






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drake20
New Orleans Saints Fan
Baton Rouge
Member since Oct 2005
10865 posts

re: Zach Lowe on the Hornets rest of the year


quote:

Body wise the Garnett comparison is a good one.

Garnett wasn't a full time center until he was 17 years into his career...


Ya, he was mostly a PF, but he was a skinny young guy that grew into his body and became a strong player.

quote:

Davis and Anderson are terrible together, its a fact.


for now...fully grown/experienced Davis two years from now with Anderson could be just what the doctor ordered.







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corndeaux
New Orleans Pelicans Fan
Member since Sep 2009
5528 posts

re: Zach Lowe on the Hornets rest of the year


quote:

Davis and Anderson are terrible together, its a fact


Here are the 5 man lineup #s on NBA.com for all lineups with Davis/Anderson that have played more than 20 minutes total:

Aminu/Anderson/Davis/Gordon/Vasquez

14 Games 69 Minutes played
ORating- 100.3 DRating- 104.9

Aminu/Anderson/Davis/Rivers/Vasquez

16 Games 43 Minutes played
ORating- 112.2 DRating 98.7

Aminu/Anderson/Davis/Mason/Vasquez

10 Games 27 Minutes played
ORating- 115.6 DRating- 122.1

Anderson/Davis/Rivers/Thomas/Vasquez

8 Games 24 Minutes played
ORating- 99.8 DRating- 89.5

Anderson/Davis/Gordon/Mason/Vasquez

7 Games 24 minutes
ORating- 120.7 DRating- 151.1

Anderson/Davis/Mason/McGuire/Roberts

4 Games 23 minutes
ORating- 105.4 DRating- 107.2

Anderson/Davis/Rivers/Roberts/Vasquez

3 Games 22 minutes
ORating- 143.8 DRating- 136.2

LINK

A few thoughts:

The numbers aren't great, but they aren't terrible.

The defense is awful, but the entire team's defense is awful.

The units without a real SF (and we're talking about Aminu, McGuire, and Thomas as SFs here) stick out like a sore thumb defensively.

It's probably a fair helping of both, but are their #s bad because of an inherent flaw or are they bad because of poor guard play most of the seaosn?






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GynoSandberg
New Orleans Pelicans Fan
Member since Jan 2006
36691 posts

re: Zach Lowe on the Hornets rest of the year


quote:

Ya, he was mostly a PF, but he was a skinny young guy that grew into his body and became a strong player.


Garnett was so good as a PF because he was a little too light to play C but his size and athleticism allowed him to dominate 4s. Guys like Rasha Nestorovic and Joe Smith took on the centers and Garnett reaped huge benefits. Same with Tim Duncan. Which is why I've been clamoring for a legit 5 to alleviate the pressure on Davis... Make him play against PFs straight up on offense and defense and he will own them. Bring Anderson off the bench and in certain lineups play him w AD. No way you trade Anderson; we suffered through miserable benches for too long. We need a legit scorer off the bench.

Davis isn't going to just all of a sudden bulk up in 2 years. He'll still only be 22






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drake20
New Orleans Saints Fan
Baton Rouge
Member since Oct 2005
10865 posts

re: Zach Lowe on the Hornets rest of the year


quote:

Garnett was so good as a PF because he was a little too light to play C but his size and athleticism allowed him to dominate 4s. Guys like Rasha Nestorovic and Joe Smith took on the centers and Garnett reaped huge benefits. Same with Tim Duncan. Which is why I've been clamoring for a legit 5 to alleviate the pressure on Davis... Make him play against PFs straight up on offense and defense and he will own them.


fair enough, but why can't Anderson take on the PFs (and take them away from the paint) and let Davis dominate the centers? Won't Davis' athleticism allow him to dominate 5s as well?

Do you think that if Garnett had started playing C several years before he did that he wouldn't still have been a dominant player?

quote:

Bring Anderson off the bench and in certain lineups play him w AD. No way you trade Anderson; we suffered through miserable benches for too long. We need a legit scorer off the bench.



I don't want to trade Anderson at all...would definitely rather keep him as a bench player than trade him. My top choice is Anderson as a starter, though.

I agree that a legit scorer off the bench is an important thing for a good team to have. Isn't a guard-ish player that can create for themselves a better option for that role? Anderson is best playing with Vasquez and Gordon--guys that can get him the ball when he's open.

quote:

Davis isn't going to just all of a sudden bulk up in 2 years. He'll still only be 22


I said that he wouldn't gain very much weight....I said that he could gain a little bit of weight. Also, he can gain a lot of strength and NBA experience (rotations, timing, etc.).

Again, I don't think the team gave Anderson that 4 year, 34M dollar contract to be a bench player. He doesn't really fit the sixth man mold.

It seems to me like more and more teams are going with thinner, more athletic centers. I think Davis fits there. Monty could easily mix up the lineups and get Lopez/Smith in there when facing the rare Dwight Howard's of the world.


JMO







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ScoopAndScore
baton rouge
Member since Oct 2008
7771 posts

re: Zach Lowe on the Hornets rest of the year


quote:

the Davis–Ryan Anderson front line has been a disaster; the Hornets have allowed 113.1 points per 100 possessions when those two share the flo

Extremely telling. And a clear reason why Ryno may never be considered an NBA starter. He can't defend the 4 or the 3. Then you put him on the floor with AD who's trying to defend bigger, stronger C's and it's a recipe for disaster. I think AD can grow into a legit C but ideally he needs to be a 4. And he needs to be on the court. So Ryno becomes sort of an odd man out, bench player at best. We should have tested the trade waters with Ryno IMO. Love his 3 point shooting which every team desparately needs, but his position and inability to defend really hurts this team's makeup.






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GynoSandberg
New Orleans Pelicans Fan
Member since Jan 2006
36691 posts

re: Zach Lowe on the Hornets rest of the year


quote:

Won't Davis' athleticism allow him to dominate 5s as well?



Which athletic characteristics will allow him to succeed?

How many "athletic" 5s similar to Davis are successful in the NBA? Who are the best centers... Brook Lopez, Chandler, Al Jeff, Howard, Marc Gasol, Horford, Cousins, Pekovic, Monroe, Hibbert, Gortat, Asik. Those guys will eat Davis alive. He may have an advantage of being quicker than some, but how far does that get you? Im trying to think of a quick center that has been successful.

quote:


Do you think that if Garnett had started playing C several years before he did that he wouldn't still have been a dominant player?


He would have been a good player still, but it would not have been as easy. As a center, he would have had to face the likes of Shaq, Mutombo, Zo, Yao, the Admiral, Ben Wallace, Big Z, Brad Miller etc. All of those have the bulk and size advantage over a guy like KG.


quote:



Again, I don't think the team gave Anderson that 4 year, 34M dollar contract to be a bench player. He doesn't really fit the sixth man mold.


I don't believe in allowing a contract to dictate someone's role. Vasquez's contract is cheap, that doesn't mean he's an automatic bench player. I also don't think their is a specific 6th man role. Just look at the past winners.

quote:


It seems to me like more and more teams are going with thinner, more athletic centers.


I just don't see it. See above.






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TigerinATL
New Orleans Pelicans Fan
Member since Feb 2005
33789 posts

re: Zach Lowe on the Hornets rest of the year


quote:

How many "athletic" 5s similar to Davis are successful in the NBA?


I guess the question is will he be closer to KG or Tyson Chandler.







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GynoSandberg
New Orleans Pelicans Fan
Member since Jan 2006
36691 posts

re: Zach Lowe on the Hornets rest of the year





Or Marcus Camby






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Jester
LSU Fan
Baton Rouge
Member since Feb 2006
17459 posts

re: Zach Lowe on the Hornets rest of the year


quote:

Or Marcus Camby


I think Davis' offense is already better than Camby ever was, but if Davis becomes anywhere near the level of defender that Camby was, that alone would keep him in the league for many years.






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eyeran
New Orleans Pelicans Fan
New Orleans
Member since Dec 2007
17256 posts

re: Zach Lowe on the Hornets rest of the year


quote:

I guess the question is will he be closer to KG or Tyson Chandler.
TC is about 3" taller than Davis, has no offensive game and got dumped by multiple teams before he peaked.

I say leave him on the Garnett track. He slowly got stronger, but it took years.

I honestly don't understand all the fuss over getting Anderson into the starting lineup. Davis won't peak until years after Anderson's deal is up. Why are arguing over how to screw with Davis, to fit Anderson in? It should be the exact opposite, and the guys that don't fit should go.

Anderson's a good role player on a championship team. Davis is the guy they hand the trophy to.






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TigerinATL
New Orleans Pelicans Fan
Member since Feb 2005
33789 posts

re: Zach Lowe on the Hornets rest of the year


quote:

I honestly don't understand all the fuss over getting Anderson into the starting lineup.


I think he produces enough to earn his money as a 6th man, but that does potentially change the offseason priorities if you need a starting center that rebounds better than Lopez.






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eyeran
New Orleans Pelicans Fan
New Orleans
Member since Dec 2007
17256 posts

re: Zach Lowe on the Hornets rest of the year


quote:

I think he produces enough to earn his money as a 6th man, but that does potentially change the offseason priorities if you need a starting center that rebounds better than Lopez.
I agree.






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WB504
New Orleans Saints Fan
New Orleans
Member since May 2008
3239 posts

re: Zach Lowe on the Hornets rest of the year


quote:

I honestly don't understand all the fuss over getting Anderson into the starting lineup. Davis won't peak until years after Anderson's deal is up. Why are arguing over how to screw with Davis, to fit Anderson in? It should be the exact opposite, and the guys that don't fit should go.


The fuss is whether the FO views Davis as a future C or PF. If it's C, then all is good with AD and Ryno.
If it's PF, then Ryno eventually needs to be traded.

You want your best players playing on the court together the majority of the time to maximize your talent. We can't do that with AD and Ryno both at PF.






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